Quite right, I didn’t mean to imply (and in retrospect i understand a reading that would miss that detail) that the verbiage in question was yours.
It was not. pb > On Jan 2, 2016, at 9:56 PM, Kevin Gorman <kgor...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I know you probably realize this pb, but I just want to emphasize that the > verbiage that certainly something untoward has taken place wasn't coming > from me, and would like to stress that to the rest of the list. It's just > such a serious matter, that I believe outside investigation is almost > certainly warranted, unless James agrees that there was no such withholding > and additionally agrees that the degree of transparency with which his > removal took place is in line with both the law and the values of the > movement. On the extreme end, under california NPO governance, there are > certain situations where such intentional document withholding could > actually risk eliminating the normal shield trustees enjoy for most of > their actions and making them personally liable, so it's a situation that's > weird enough that clearing it up with transparency and speed is in the best > interests of the Wikimedia movement. > > Best, > KG > > On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Philippe Beaudette <phili...@beaudette.me> > wrote: > >> Kevin, >> >> I disagree with nothing you’ve said here. What I disagreed with was the >> characterization that “certainly” something untoward had taken place. >> >> pb >> >> >>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 9:41 PM, Kevin Gorman <kgor...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Philippe - >>> >>> I totally agree with you that none of my experiences with WMF suggest >> that >>> such a thing is likely to happen. Organizations and people change over >>> time, though - similarly, this is the first time a sitting trustee has >> been >>> dismissed. Given the unusuality of the situation, in my opinion at >> least, >>> given the *drastic* seriousness that something like deliberately >>> withholding documents in such a manner under California state law (I >> can't >>> speak with familiarity about Florida NPO governance,) and the fact that >>> both the BoT and James could pretty easily give flat out answers to the >>> question of whether or not they think it occurred, I think it's worth >>> asking for those answers. >>> >>> If James and the BoT agree that such withholding took place, I think it >>> demands an outside review of WMF governance. If James thinks it did, but >>> the rest of the BoT disagrees.. given the general respect held for James' >>> and the seriousness of the charge, I think an outside review of WMF >>> governance is *still* probably reasonably necessary. If neither thinks >>> such withholding took place, then it settles a serious charge quite >> simply. >>> >>> Best, >>> KG >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 7:01 PM, <phili...@beaudette.me> wrote: >>> >>>> I don't believe that's "very clear" at all. You yourself said "If what >>>> Ben said is true...." I think it's very possible - to the extent that >> Ben >>>> cautioned against it himself - that this may be a misunderstanding. >>>> >>>> In my nearly seven years at the WMF I never once saw corruption of the >>>> sort you suggest. Not once. And I think it's safe to say I was well >>>> connected. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Philippe Beaudette >>>> philippe.beaude...@icloud.com >>>> >>>>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Comet styles <cometsty...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> We should probably start with our high and mighty leader, Jimbo, just >>>>> like everyone else, He should now be 'elected' into the BoT, no more >>>>> free seats..Wikimedia has now grown to an extent where we may no >>>>> longer need him to run the foundation or to hold a deciding vote on >>>>> issues where he has his own interests in..This problem of lacking >>>>> transparency has leaked down to the lower levels of wikimedia as well, >>>>> is that the example they are going to set? .. As I said before, the >>>>> longer this drags on, the more likelihood of a 'manufactured' truth >>>>> coming out.. >>>>> >>>>> People who do wrong need time to come up with a good lie....everyone >>>>> knows this..James spoke the moment he was "fired" for which he was >>>>> reprimanded by the same authority that 'fired' him...If what Ben >>>>> Creasy said is true, then its definitely not James on the wrong here >>>>> and I'd be really effing pissed if he was made a 'scapegoat' by the >>>>> powers that be to save their own useless hide..Its very clear that >>>>> there is corruption at the highest order at WMF....the question is.. >>>>> How deep does it go? .. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Cometstyles >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
