Yeah they don't want the parent company to gain too much attention I think...
With that said the Skybeam website (the Colorado operation...) is pretty bad too Daniel White 3-dB Networks > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:56 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > > Judging by their web site, JAB has no more than 6 customers. > > > > > Yes, that's a jab (pun intended) at their web site. > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:34 PM > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > > > OK, we'll give you JAB, as one of the largest WISPs that uses Canopy. > > > > However, it should be noted there is a difference between a large wisp > > and > > a roll up. > > Sure if a Roll up just aquired a lot of WISPs, they are going to be a > > Large > > company of one product line. > > Its purely coincidental that it played out that way. Had there been a > > Alvarion or Trango roll up, they could easilly scale to same proportion. > > Its not necessarilly fair to compare a Roll up venture to original owner > > companies. > > > > Tom DeReggi > > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:11 PM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > > > > > >> JAB? They probably have 50,000 subs by now. Canopy shop. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > >> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 6:16 PM > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > >> > >> > >>> Again... Canopy is a very popular platform, I do not deny that. > >>> > >>> But I still feel there is no basis to your statement, or statistics > that > >>> back up your original statement taht Canopy dominates the large > provider > >>> market. > >>> > >>> What about Tower Stream? Last I knew they were one of the largest > Urban > >>> WISPs. They use Aperto. > >>> What about AirBand, they had some serious numbers at some time, one > two > >>> occasions, I was aware of them buying Proxim at one point, then a lot > of > >>> Alvarion later on. > >>> What about Prairie-I.net, one of the larger, I know they used alot of > >>> Trango > >>> at one point. > >>> What about Travis, one of the larger, He's bigtime Trango user. > >>> What about Matt Larson (now w/GAB), he had gotten pretty darn big, he > >>> was > >>> mostly Tranzeo and StarOS. > >>> What about Covad/Nextweb, to the beest of my knowledge they were NOT > >>> primarilly a Canopy shop. > >>> > >>> Sure, Canopy is emergencing as a company that is continueing to evolve > >>> in > >>> compatibility with WISP models to enable expansion to 20mbps and > beyond. > >>> But to say Canopy owned the large player market is ludicris. > >>> > >>> You could argue Canopy was a preferred choice for many Muni plays, > most > >>> all > >>> of which went bankrupt or shut down their networks, creating one of > the > >>> largest availability stockpiles of second hand used product for WISPs > to > >>> now > >>> buy at discount, compared to any other brand. I find it interesting > that > >>> Alvarion and Trango still hold their value higher on Ebay. > >>> > >>> I'll also argue that what is considered preferred choice gear is a > leap > >>> frog > >>> game. Ironically, I personally have been using some Canopy recently, > >>> because of a unique value proposition it offers for specific > application > >>> on > >>> this given day. However, there are many new players, which very well > may > >>> bring the next best product line to the market. A perfect example are > >>> new > >>> products like Redline, Aperto, Alvarion dominating the new 3650 > markets. > >>> > >>> And the comment "are swapping out their Trango gear anyways.", that's > a > >>> croc. If they are swapping them out, they are fools. Eight years > later, > >>> my > >>> Trangos are as strong as the day they were installed. > >>> > >>> I'd actually argue the opposite of your comment. Alvarion always had > the > >>> reputation as the choice for the larger VC funded companies that could > >>> afford the best. Canopy is more destined to be a preferred choice for > >>> "small > >>> operators." To Canopy's luck, Trango, the price and engineering > leader, > >>> and > >>> favorite to many medium size providers, decided not to continue down > the > >>> path to evolve PtMP solutions into the next generation 20-30mbps > >>> capacities, > >>> therefore leaving the door wide open for Canopy to work its way into > >>> winning > >>> business from smaller market providers. If a WISP wants 20mbps, and > >>> doesn't > >>> want to mess around with OEM style gear, its one of the solution left > >>> that > >>> can do it at near the same price point. > >>> > >>> > >>> Tom DeReggi > >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> > >>> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:16 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > >>> > >>> > >>>>I guess we need to define large... :-) > >>>> > >>>> You also need to look at the region I know best... for WISP's over > say > >>>> 1000 > >>>> customers in the State of Colorado... only one WISP operational in > say > >>>> 2006 > >>>> on had over 1000 customers and was using anything but Canopy... and > now > >>>> they > >>>> are swapping out their Trango gear anyways. > >>>> > >>>> I think large for a WISP has to be at the 5000 sub or higher mark. I > >>>> for > >>>> one can only think of three or four companies at that mark... and > they > >>>> all > >>>> use Canopy... > >>>> > >>>> Since I don't get out to the East coast... I know I can be very very > >>>> wrong > >>>> :-) I should have put that disclaimer on that statement (so I > >>>> apologize!) > >>>> > >>>> Daniel White > >>>> 3-dB Networks > >>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> On > >>>>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:43 PM > >>>>> To: WISPA General List > >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > >>>>> > >>>>> > the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a reason > >>>>> > >>>>> Canopy makes a real nice platform now, and some large companies may > >>>>> use > >>>>> Canopy.. But that comment is in no way true. > >>>>> > >>>>> I can name just as many large companies that deploy, Trango, > Alvarion, > >>>>> StarOS, etc. > >>>>> > >>>>> Tom DeReggi > >>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > >>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "3-dB Networks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:47 AM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > Steve, > >>>>> > > >>>>> > I think Mesa Networks former CEO (if your not familiar with our > >>>>> > company > >>>>> we > >>>>> > are a spin off of Mesa Networks) Todd Bergstrom attributes part of > >>>>> > our > >>>>> > success by leasing equipment early on as a WISP. He wrote an > >>>>> > article > >>>>> here > >>>>> > about leasing that might change your mind. > >>>>> > http://tinyurl.com/5uowsx > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Basically look at it this way. If you lease your equipment, it > >>>>> > allows > >>>>> you > >>>>> > to build that next tower site, get customers installed, increase > >>>>> > your > >>>>> > revenue. You end up paying more in the long run because of the > >>>>> interest, > >>>>> > but you may also save money by being able to buy in bulk from your > >>>>> vendor > >>>>> > instead of individual or 5 packs. Todd probably explains it > better > >>>>> > in > >>>>> the > >>>>> > article. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Other than this, I've been racking my brains on things that > another > >>>>> > WISP > >>>>> > can > >>>>> > replicate to expand... and the only thing I can think of is > >>>>> > equipment > >>>>> > related... I know we couldn't have built our network using an > >>>>> 802.11a/b/g > >>>>> > solution (although our networks first couple hundred customers > were > >>>>> > on > >>>>> > KarlNet) because you hit an oversubscription on the AP really > fast. > >>>>> > We > >>>>> > had > >>>>> > many many AP's with 50+ customers... we would not have been > >>>>> > successful > >>>>> > without timing and the ability to place so many customers on an > AP. > >>>>> > Our > >>>>> > WISP almost failed back in 2002 (before I joined Mesa) because we > >>>>> > hit > >>>>> the > >>>>> > limitations of the KarlNet system. My experiences with a Tranzeo > >>>>> network > >>>>> > in > >>>>> > 2006/2007 lead me to believe things really haven't changed that > much > >>>>> (its > >>>>> > all still 802.11 and its hard to make significant improvements to > >>>>> > it). > >>>>> So > >>>>> > while this is probably along the lines of rip out your network and > >>>>> > start > >>>>> > over... the really big WISP's all deploy Canopy I think for a > >>>>> > reason. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > My 2 cents, take them for what they are worth (which 2 cents isn't > >>>>> > worth > >>>>> > much anymore) > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Daniel White > >>>>> > 3-dB Networks > >>>>> > > >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> >> On > >>>>> >> Behalf Of Steve Barnes > >>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:53 AM > >>>>> >> To: WISPA General List > >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> I guess maybe I am old school but leasing the CPE just makes it > so > >>>>> >> that > >>>>> >> the monthly fee has to pay the CPE cost instead of the install. > >>>>> >> You > >>>>> >> still have to pay for it. It may make cash flow easier but the > ROI > >>>>> >> takes longer due to interest rates and labor dealing with lease > Co. > >>>>> >> Can you help me with that one. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Steve > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> >> On > >>>>> >> Behalf Of Travis Johnson > >>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:45 PM > >>>>> >> To: WISPA General List > >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Client Speeds > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Honestly, the fastest way to grow is to lease your CPE. Then the > >>>>> install > >>>>> >> fee covers your cost on every install, and you aren't "upside > down" > >>>>> >> on > >>>>> >> every new customer. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Travis > >>>>> >> Microserv > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> You are doing it. Just keep bootstrapping. Once you get 1000 > >>>>> >> subscribers > >>>>> >> things will be a bit better. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> >> From: "Steve Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > >>>>> >> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> > >>>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:32 PM > >>>>> >> Subject: [WISPA] Client Speeds > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> I have read many post on this list about how much bandwidth > >>>>> >> different > >>>>> >> WISP offer. I want to discuss that as well as the recommended > >>>>> >> equipment > >>>>> >> that is so often discussed on this list. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> I am a startup. Little to no startup capital. I had to pinch > >>>>> >> each > >>>>> >> penny to get as much as possible out of it. My goal was to > >>>>> >> service the > >>>>> >> clients no one wanted in a county that had no Fiber or DSL other > >>>>> >> that > >>>>> >> what Verizon holds hostage. So now after 2 years I have 8 > >>>>> >> towers with > >>>>> >> 320 clients. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> The service I offer is a $39.99 basic level 640k x 256k and a > >>>>> >> $59.99 Pro > >>>>> >> Level 1M x 512k. You guys are talking about 10Mb. If I turn > >>>>> >> off the > >>>>> >> speed control on AP's and let people play I don't get over 3.5M > >>>>> >> on any > >>>>> >> of them. ( 2.4 MT or StarOS, and Tranzeo CPE's) I use a StarOS > >>>>> >> Full > >>>>> >> Duplex Link to Backhaul to a Fiber connection that I Share cost > >>>>> >> of with > >>>>> >> another WISP my size. The investment I would have to make to > >>>>> >> achieve > >>>>> >> 10MB to each client is financially Impossible. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Surely some of you big guys out there have been in my shoes. > >>>>> >> What do > >>>>> >> you recommend a small WISP in my situation to do in the future. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Please don't start with the statement, "How you should have > >>>>> >> started you > >>>>> >> service". I was providing a solution. So this is what I have > >>>>> >> and I > >>>>> >> know of at least 6 other small WISP's on this list who are in > >>>>> >> the same > >>>>> >> boat. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> So BIG GUYS think back. How do I grow into new BROADBAND > >>>>> >> definition > >>>>> >> without rebuilding my network from the ground up. What is > >>>>> >> everyone > >>>>> >> charging and what does the client get for that price. Financing > >>>>> >> is not > >>>>> >> readily available and the Boss hopes to one day get some ROI. > >>>>> >> No > >>>>> >> Grants available and no big group wanting to invest or challenge > >>>>> >> Verizon. > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Steve Barnes > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> RC-WiFi.com > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > >>>>> - > >>>>> >> -------- > >>>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > >>>>> - > >>>>> >> -------- > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > >>>>> - > >>>>> >> -------- > >>>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > >>>>> - > >>>>> >> -------- > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > >>>>> --- > >>>>> >> ------ > >>>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > >>>>> --- > >>>>> >> ------ > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ > >>>>> -------- > >>>>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>>> > http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ > >>>>> -------- > >>>>> > > >>>>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > -- > >>>>> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >>>>> > Checked by AVG. > >>>>> > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1826 - Release Date: > >>>>> 12/3/2008 > >>>>> > 9:34 AM > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > >>>>> ------ > >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > >>>>> ------ > >>>>> > >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>>> > >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>>> > >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > >>>> > >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>>> > >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>>> > >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>>> Checked by AVG. > >>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.13/1828 - Release Date: > >>>> 12/4/2008 > >>>> 8:05 AM > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > >>> > >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >>> > >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >>> > >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > >> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > >> > >> -- > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG. > >> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.14/1832 - Release Date: > >> 12/5/2008 > >> 9:57 AM > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------- > > WISPA Wants You! 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