Less chance of an issue but the issue is more damaging is this point. On 11/23/09, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote: > However, if the noise is "outside" of the 10mhz channel size (say 5mhz on > each side), the 10mhz link will work perfect, while the 20mhz link will have > loss and latency. > > With smaller channel sizes, you have LESS of a chance of having noise > issues. > > Travis > Microserv > > Jayson Baker wrote: >> >> Doesn't matter. If the interference is there, it's there. If your radio >> has no where to spread out the signal and "avoid" that interference, >> you're >> dead. >> >> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Josh Luthman >> <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>wrote: >> >> >>> >>> Right but you have another 6db to get a stronger signal. >>> >>> On 11/22/09, Jayson Baker <jay...@spectrasurf.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Yes, you get more signal, but you have much less spectrum for your >>>> spread >>>> spectrum radio to operate in. >>>> Spread spectrum doesn't always use the full 20MHz, it will skip around >>>> -- >>>> that's the "spread" part of it. >>>> So if you lower that to 5MHz, then you have virtually no "spread" and >>>> anything that may be inside that 5MHz >>>> will cause you a much more deteriorated performance than if it was in >>>> >>> >>> your >>> >>>> >>>> 20MHz. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Mike <m...@aweiowa.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I should think the opposite is true. Halve the signal, improve >>>>> signal to noise 3 dB. Half it again and the improvement is 6 dB >>>>> signal to noise. Should give you way more margin. My tests prove that >>>>> out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At 08:44 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> IIRC, 5MHz and 10MHz is more sucepstible to interference than 20MHz. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS < >>>>>> ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm gonna have to set up the environment again. Only thing I cant >>>>>>> simulate right now is distance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As long as it wasnt some voodoo config setting that made it work >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> better, >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I might have to play with the Mobile NS2's settings for it to play >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> nicely. >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> OT: What is CCQ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Israel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh Luthman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is very weird isn't it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Vi is better the Emacs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/22/09, Mike <m...@aweiowa.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Josh: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I thought that too. I have a handful of customers on a 5 MHz >>>>>>>>> sector. Winbox shows this: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Emacs! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At 07:32 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I believe when you half the channels the rates also get halved - >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> from >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 54mbit >>>>>>>>>> to 27mbit max (that is from 20mhz to 10mhz channels). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I also can't see why you're voice would be having problems in >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> half >>> >>>>> >>>>> or >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> quarter channels unless there is a software bug. It should only >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> improve >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> unless you're using all available bandwidth. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." >>>>>>>>>> --- Albert Einstein >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> First, you should have a better signal than -70 at <5Miles away >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> with a >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 24dB/NS2 antenna and a B2HP/9dB omni. I get 65 or better with >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> a >>> >>>>> >>>>> 19dB >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> panel. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Don't forget, 10MHz channel is 1/2 available bandwidth and 5MHz >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 1/4 >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> available bandwidth. Really, you will get about 7-10MBit >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> aggregate >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (depending on how many customers) on a 5MHz channel connected >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> at >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 54MBit, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> which requires signals at -74dBm with a good fade margin >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> (10dB). >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the TX power is significantly less for 54MBps (23dBm) vs >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 24MBps(28dBm), >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> less than half. Likely, you are connecting at 48MBps or >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> 36Mbps, >>> >>>>> >>>>> which >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> at that rate your total available "real case" bandwidth is as >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> little >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 4MBps, while at 20MHz you are at 15+. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A narrower channel should not affect your transmission, likely >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> will >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> make >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> signals better, roughly double (+3dBm) from 20-10, and double >>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>> 10-5(total +6dBm). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Hogg >>>>>>>>>>> Shelby Broadband >>>>>>>>>>> 502-722-9292 >>>>>>>>>>> ch...@shelbybb.com >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.shelbybb.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:20 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Well next time definitely bring more food! Beef jerky and >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> granola >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> bars. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In my testing the narrower channels just made things slower. I >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> testing in a pristine area where there was no other 5.8GHz >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> going >>> >>>>> >>>>> on. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >From what I hear if the environment had been polluted >>>>>>>>>>> performance >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> have actually gone up with the narrower channels. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >From what I've read narrower channels doesn't effect packet >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> size >>> >>>>> >>>>> or >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> transport. But switching to WDS bridged does. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Its not in the field, but it is sitting here in my bedroom >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> looking >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> cool :). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking that using the 10/5MHz bandwidth required one >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> to >>> >>>>> >>>>> setup >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> something else. I'm not that familiar with the use of >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> half/quarter >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> rate >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> channels and how that affects the frame transport/packet size >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> etc,. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if it was environment based rather than >>>>>>>>>>>> 'software/configuration' based. If I get some time this >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> evening >>> >>>>> >>>>> I >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> setup the gear again for more focused testing (Testing in the >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> field >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> volunteers who are cold and hungry dont usually respond well >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> to >>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> testing >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> plans). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -Israel >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just for kicks I'd try WDS bridged. Do you have control from >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> where >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> you're at now? Is the equipment still set up? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> two >>> >>>>> >>>>> units >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> Station >>> >>>>> >>>>> modes >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Running WDS bridged? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> with >>> >>>>> >>>>> some >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 & Bullet2HP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One thing that was surprising was the performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degradation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bandwidth >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Voice >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Call), >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and MTR (Latency, Jitter) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> tech >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> team, but >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> bandwidth >>> >>>>> >>>>> our >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> voice >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mobile I >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> choppy. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We started to get packet loss & massive jitter on 10MHz, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> going back >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 20MHz made the links stable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Directional >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bullet2HP @400mW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile Station: 8km away near large body of water - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bullet2HP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> @400mW w/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 24dBi Directional (HPOL Alignment) -70dbm RSSI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas? We are planning on using 10MHz channels & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>> H-Pol >>> >>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> combat >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any future spectrum pollution and voice calls over this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> network >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> expected. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Israel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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