Iirc Lots of wifi cards can tx on 5 and 10 MHz channels but would still receive at 20 MHz
Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Nov 23, 2009, at 2:35 AM, "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: > Less chance of an issue but the issue is more damaging is this point. > > On 11/23/09, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote: >> However, if the noise is "outside" of the 10mhz channel size (say >> 5mhz on >> each side), the 10mhz link will work perfect, while the 20mhz link >> will have >> loss and latency. >> >> With smaller channel sizes, you have LESS of a chance of having noise >> issues. >> >> Travis >> Microserv >> >> Jayson Baker wrote: >>> >>> Doesn't matter. If the interference is there, it's there. If >>> your radio >>> has no where to spread out the signal and "avoid" that interference, >>> you're >>> dead. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Josh Luthman >>> <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Right but you have another 6db to get a stronger signal. >>>> >>>> On 11/22/09, Jayson Baker <jay...@spectrasurf.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes, you get more signal, but you have much less spectrum for your >>>>> spread >>>>> spectrum radio to operate in. >>>>> Spread spectrum doesn't always use the full 20MHz, it will skip >>>>> around >>>>> -- >>>>> that's the "spread" part of it. >>>>> So if you lower that to 5MHz, then you have virtually no >>>>> "spread" and >>>>> anything that may be inside that 5MHz >>>>> will cause you a much more deteriorated performance than if it >>>>> was in >>>>> >>>> >>>> your >>>> >>>>> >>>>> 20MHz. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Mike <m...@aweiowa.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I should think the opposite is true. Halve the signal, improve >>>>>> signal to noise 3 dB. Half it again and the improvement is 6 dB >>>>>> signal to noise. Should give you way more margin. My tests >>>>>> prove that >>>>>> out. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> At 08:44 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> IIRC, 5MHz and 10MHz is more sucepstible to interference than >>>>>>> 20MHz. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS < >>>>>>> ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm gonna have to set up the environment again. Only thing I >>>>>>>> cant >>>>>>>> simulate right now is distance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As long as it wasnt some voodoo config setting that made it >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> better, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I might have to play with the Mobile NS2's settings for it to >>>>>>>> play >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> nicely. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> OT: What is CCQ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Israel >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Josh Luthman wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is very weird isn't it? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Vi is better the Emacs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 11/22/09, Mike <m...@aweiowa.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Josh: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I thought that too. I have a handful of customers on a 5 MHz >>>>>>>>>> sector. Winbox shows this: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Emacs! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At 07:32 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I believe when you half the channels the rates also get >>>>>>>>>>> halved - >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> from >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 54mbit >>>>>>>>>>> to 27mbit max (that is from 20mhz to 10mhz channels). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I also can't see why you're voice would be having problems >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> half >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> or >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> quarter channels unless there is a software bug. It >>>>>>>>>>> should only >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> improve >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> unless you're using all available bandwidth. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>>>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>>>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>>>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>>>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>>>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your >>>>>>>>>>> sources." >>>>>>>>>>> --- Albert Einstein >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> First, you should have a better signal than -70 at >>>>>>>>>>>> <5Miles away >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> with a >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 24dB/NS2 antenna and a B2HP/9dB omni. I get 65 or better >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> a >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 19dB >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> panel. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Don't forget, 10MHz channel is 1/2 available bandwidth >>>>>>>>>>>> and 5MHz >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 1/4 >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> available bandwidth. Really, you will get about 7-10MBit >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> aggregate >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (depending on how many customers) on a 5MHz channel >>>>>>>>>>>> connected >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> at >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 54MBit, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> which requires signals at -74dBm with a good fade margin >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> (10dB). >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the TX power is significantly less for 54MBps (23dBm) vs >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 24MBps(28dBm), >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> less than half. Likely, you are connecting at 48MBps or >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> 36Mbps, >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> which >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> at that rate your total available "real case" bandwidth >>>>>>>>>>>> is as >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> little >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 4MBps, while at 20MHz you are at 15+. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A narrower channel should not affect your transmission, >>>>>>>>>>>> likely >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> will >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> signals better, roughly double (+3dBm) from 20-10, and >>>>>>>>>>>> double >>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> 10-5(total +6dBm). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Hogg >>>>>>>>>>>> Shelby Broadband >>>>>>>>>>>> 502-722-9292 >>>>>>>>>>>> ch...@shelbybb.com >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.shelbybb.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:20 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Well next time definitely bring more food! Beef jerky and >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> granola >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> bars. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In my testing the narrower channels just made things >>>>>>>>>>>> slower. I >>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> testing in a pristine area where there was no other 5.8GHz >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> going >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> on. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From what I hear if the environment had been polluted >>>>>>>>>>>> performance >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> have actually gone up with the narrower channels. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From what I've read narrower channels doesn't effect >>>>>>>>>>>>> packet >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> size >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> or >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> transport. But switching to WDS bridged does. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Its not in the field, but it is sitting here in my bedroom >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> looking >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> cool :). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking that using the 10/5MHz bandwidth required >>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> setup >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> something else. I'm not that familiar with the use of >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> half/quarter >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> rate >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> channels and how that affects the frame transport/packet >>>>>>>>>>>>> size >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> etc,. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if it was environment based rather than >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'software/configuration' based. If I get some time this >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> evening >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> setup the gear again for more focused testing (Testing >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> field >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> volunteers who are cold and hungry dont usually respond >>>>>>>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> testing >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> plans). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -Israel >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just for kicks I'd try WDS bridged. Do you have control >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> where >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> you're at now? Is the equipment still set up? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> two >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> units >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> Station >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> modes >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Running WDS bridged? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> with >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> some >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 & Bullet2HP. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One thing that was surprising was the performance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degradation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Raw >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bandwidth >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> G711 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Voice >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Call), >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and MTR (Latency, Jitter) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still have data to collect and prepare a report >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> tech >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> team, but >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> bandwidth >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> our >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> voice >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mobile I >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> choppy. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We started to get packet loss & massive jitter on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10MHz, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> going back >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 20MHz made the links stable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Directional >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bullet2HP @400mW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile Station: 8km away near large body of water - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bullet2HP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> @400mW w/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 24dBi Directional (HPOL Alignment) -70dbm RSSI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas? We are planning on using 10MHz channels & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> H-Pol >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> combat >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any future spectrum pollution and voice calls over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> network >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> expected. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Israel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> --- >>>>>> --- >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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