I think what he is trying to say that given a noise pattern on your 2.4ISM band, a 20MHz signal may be in that noise about lets say 25% of your bandwidth footprint. If you decide to drop down to 5MHz and move your center frequency right onto that noise then you might have just put yourself right on top of the noise. It would seem more susceptible to the noise even if you have the power to get over it.
In my case; I'm replacing a network that is a 40MHz 802.11G WDS network that works 'decently' 800kbps-3mbps if you have a good day, an 100kbps on a bad day. It makes sense when we dropped down to a 20MHz channel that the performance dropped. *There are other problems that we are addressing, thermal resets, no QoS, no firmware upgrades, cheap equipment, bad design etc,.* This is in Honduras. We noted other ISM2.4 users at around 3km away using a 9dBi omni vpol using WiSPY 2.4x approximately -81 to -78 dbm in some spots on the 2.4Band. HPOL made it much quieter. -Israel Mike wrote: > I should think the opposite is true. Halve the signal, improve > signal to noise 3 dB. Half it again and the improvement is 6 dB > signal to noise. Should give you way more margin. My tests prove that out. > > > At 08:44 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: > >> IIRC, 5MHz and 10MHz is more sucepstible to interference than 20MHz. >> >> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS < >> ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com> wrote: >> >> >>> I'm gonna have to set up the environment again. Only thing I cant >>> simulate right now is distance. >>> >>> As long as it wasnt some voodoo config setting that made it work better, >>> I might have to play with the Mobile NS2's settings for it to play nicely. >>> >>> OT: What is CCQ? >>> >>> -Israel >>> >>> Josh Luthman wrote: >>> >>>> It is very weird isn't it? >>>> >>>> Vi is better the Emacs. >>>> >>>> On 11/22/09, Mike <m...@aweiowa.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Josh: >>>>> >>>>> I thought that too. I have a handful of customers on a 5 MHz >>>>> sector. Winbox shows this: >>>>> >>>>> Emacs! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> At 07:32 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I believe when you half the channels the rates also get halved - from >>>>>> 54mbit >>>>>> to 27mbit max (that is from 20mhz to 10mhz channels). >>>>>> >>>>>> I also can't see why you're voice would be having problems in half or >>>>>> quarter channels unless there is a software bug. It should only >>>>>> >>> improve >>> >>>>>> unless you're using all available bandwidth. >>>>>> >>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>> >>>>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." >>>>>> --- Albert Einstein >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> >>>>>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> First, you should have a better signal than -70 at <5Miles away with a >>>>>>> 24dB/NS2 antenna and a B2HP/9dB omni. I get 65 or better with a 19dB >>>>>>> panel. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Don't forget, 10MHz channel is 1/2 available bandwidth and 5MHz is 1/4 >>>>>>> available bandwidth. Really, you will get about 7-10MBit aggregate >>>>>>> (depending on how many customers) on a 5MHz channel connected at >>>>>>> >>> 54MBit, >>> >>>>>>> which requires signals at -74dBm with a good fade margin (10dB). >>>>>>> >>> Also, >>> >>>>>>> the TX power is significantly less for 54MBps (23dBm) vs >>>>>>> >>> 24MBps(28dBm), >>> >>>>>>> less than half. Likely, you are connecting at 48MBps or 36Mbps, which >>>>>>> at that rate your total available "real case" bandwidth is as little >>>>>>> >>> as >>> >>>>>>> 4MBps, while at 20MHz you are at 15+. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A narrower channel should not affect your transmission, likely will >>>>>>> >>> make >>> >>>>>>> signals better, roughly double (+3dBm) from 20-10, and double from >>>>>>> 10-5(total +6dBm). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Chuck Hogg >>>>>>> Shelby Broadband >>>>>>> 502-722-9292 >>>>>>> ch...@shelbybb.com >>>>>>> http://www.shelbybb.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>>> >>> On >>> >>>>>>> Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:20 PM >>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well next time definitely bring more food! Beef jerky and granola >>>>>>> >>> bars. >>> >>>>>>> In my testing the narrower channels just made things slower. I was >>>>>>> testing in a pristine area where there was no other 5.8GHz going on. >>>>>>> >From what I hear if the environment had been polluted performance >>>>>>> >>> might >>> >>>>>>> have actually gone up with the narrower channels. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >From what I've read narrower channels doesn't effect packet size or >>>>>>> transport. But switching to WDS bridged does. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Its not in the field, but it is sitting here in my bedroom looking >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> cool :). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was thinking that using the 10/5MHz bandwidth required one to setup >>>>>>>> something else. I'm not that familiar with the use of half/quarter >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> rate >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> channels and how that affects the frame transport/packet size etc,. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wonder if it was environment based rather than >>>>>>>> 'software/configuration' based. If I get some time this evening I >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> setup the gear again for more focused testing (Testing in the field >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> volunteers who are cold and hungry dont usually respond well to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> testing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> plans). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Israel >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just for kicks I'd try WDS bridged. Do you have control from where >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> you're at now? Is the equipment still set up? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the two units >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was Station modes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Running WDS bridged? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hey All, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some >>>>>>>>>>>> Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 & Bullet2HP. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> when >>> >>>>>>>>>>>> switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth >>>>>>>>>>>> Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 Voice >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Call), >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> and MTR (Latency, Jitter) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the tech >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> team, but >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz bandwidth our >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> voice >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to Mobile I >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> could >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice was >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> choppy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> We started to get packet loss & massive jitter on 10MHz, just >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> going back >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to 20MHz made the links stable. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni Directional >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> with a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Bullet2HP @400mW >>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile Station: 8km away near large body of water - Bullet2HP >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> @400mW w/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 24dBi Directional (HPOL Alignment) -70dbm RSSI >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas? We are planning on using 10MHz channels & H-Pol to >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> combat >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> any future spectrum pollution and voice calls over this network >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> is >>> >>>>>>> expected. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -Israel >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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