Matt,
Chill, you're taking a really harsh tone. I'm talking about Cuba
because I know about that. I have many Latino friends. I speak Spanish. I know
Cubans and I know a lot of people who have been to Cuba. You're putting words
in my mouth. I'm not refuting all those other countries statistics. I thought
you wanted debate of the facts. Or do you just want us to sit at your feet and
listen?
Greg
On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:59 PM, Matt Liotta wrote:
> And I guess because you know someone from Canada/Britain/France/Spain/
> etc that swears the healthcare is worse then they make it out to be
> and that the US is where everyone with money goes then it must be
> true. Let's all just ignore study after study that shows every single
> first world country has it better than the US. Sure, I'll believe Cuba
> is hiding the real story. What about the other 30+ countries that have
> better healthcare at a lower GDP cost? Are they lying too?
>
> -Matt
>
> On Dec 8, 2009, at 7:47 PM, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Sorry guys, I just have to jump in on the Cuban health care thing. I
>> live in Venezuela and we have LOTS of Cuban doctors. I know some
>> personally. I know Venezuelans who have studied in Cuba. It's
>> nothing like they (the Cuban govt) say it is. The numbers are good
>> because it's a closed totalitarian system where one doesn't dare
>> report what is unpopular. Come on guys, you know enough about Cuba.
>> People are clinging to inner tubes and hunks of wood to get away.
>> When I was in the merchant marine we picked up two boat loads of
>> them. Do you guys remember when Russia was still the USSR and on
>> "Radio Moscow" they had the "farm report" segment telling about the
>> great excesses of food produced mean while our merchant marine was
>> busying bringing loads of give-away grain to the USSR. Please don'e
>> buy what their state-run media is saying. Anyone see Fahrenheit 911?
>> Remember when Michael Moore arrived at the neighborhood "hospital"
>> but then they (and their cameras) were quickly directed to
>> the other hospital? Wonder why? Because the neighborhood one (and
>> the whole healthcare system for the people) would have been a
>> laughing stock. Instead they were directed to the premier 5 star
>> hospital that is probably for party officials and military higher ups.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Robert West wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, the United States ranks number 37 in the world for the best
>>> doctors and health care system. Most Americans are under the
>>> impression
>>> that we are number one in so many things but sadly we are way less
>>> than
>>> number one in most everything. The best doctors and healthcare
>>> system?
>>> France and Italy. Cuba actually has a very impressive health
>>> system and
>>> many countries send their doctors there for training. Again, sad
>>> but true.
>>> Hiding ones head in the sand and ignoring what goes on outside our
>>> borders
>>> is what we've been doing. I know it's not competition, per se, but
>>> it
>>> should at least be used as a measuring tool. I'm not under any
>>> delusion
>>> that we or myself are best in anything. Keeps me moving.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>> Is this the "Insurance List"? This is why politics should be a
>>> No-No.
>>> It's 99% of the list now.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Brad Belton
>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:48 PM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
>>>
>>> No kidding. No profits no medical advancements. Where do people
>>> go when
>>> they seek the best doctors and health system in the world? America.
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:15 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
>>>
>>> No, not that simple...
>>>
>>> On 12/7/09, Robert West <robert.w...@just-micro.com> wrote:
>>>> Exactly. We are the one and only industrialized country (with
>>>> whatever
>>>> industry we might have left) who puts "profit" in healthcare. As
>>>> you
>>>> stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with
>>>> anything
>>>> they can find to do that.
>>>>
>>>> Profit has no place in healthcare. Single payer is the only thing
>>>> I see
>>>> working. As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are
>>>> paying
>>> for
>>>> it and getting zero bang for our buck. As George from the great
>>>> white
>>> north
>>>> said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget. They just pay
>>>> extra in
>>>> taxes.
>>>>
>>>> Medicare for all. End of the controversy. Simple.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>>>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Tom Sharples
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
>>>>
>>>> One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical
>>>> insurance,
>>> as
>>>>
>>>> currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider selling
>>>> ISP
>>>> services under the model of "broadband insurance." Under that
>>>> model, your
>>>> customer would pay you a certain amount per month in case he needs
>>>> broadband, and you would do your best to find reasons to deny him
>>>> access.
>>> Or
>>>>
>>>> how about "housing insurance" instead of monthly rent. You pay the
>>> landlord
>>>> a certain amount every month in case you need shelter and he
>>> oversubscribes
>>>> a number of his units and hires guards to keep people out on various
>>>> pretexts. Sound completely ridiculous, yet unless you're in an HMO
>>>> like
>>>> Kaiser that's the system we have now.
>>>>
>>>> What we need is universal (private or public) access to medical
>>>> care,
>>>> healthy lifestyle incentives, and the elimination of stupid laws
>>>> that only
>>>> serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs
>>>> to US
>>>> consumers, restrict free-market access across state and
>>>> international
>>>> lines,create incentives toward excess consumption and CYA medical
>>> pratices,
>>>> and only serve to increase the costs of medical care and
>>>> prescription
>>> drugs
>>>> to US consumers.
>>>>
>>>> Tom S.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "RickG" <rgunder...@gmail.com>
>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:06 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not
>>>>> truly
>>> run
>>>>> in a "free market". It's "failure" is exactly due to this. Even
>>>>> after all
>>>>> the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have
>>>>> "access"
>>>>> to health care?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM, David E. Smith <d...@mvn.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 16:42, MDK <rea...@muddyfrogwater.us>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The free market really does work. We use it daily in our
>>>>>>> business...
>>>>>>> Now
>>>>>>
>>>>>> imagine if we used it for health care, too. We know how to do
>>>>>> that,
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> we?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a fundamental difference between broadband Internet and
>>>>>> basic
>>>>>> medical care, and the fact that tens of millions of Americans have
>>> better
>>>>>> access to the former than the latter shows that in this instance
>>>>>> the
>>> free
>>>>>> market has failed miserably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Smith
>>>>>> MVN.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.97/2550 - Release Date:
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>>>> 07:33:00
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>>> --- Albert Einstein
>>>
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