ED, You say, 'We often see quite a few Zen students who quit after their first kensho experience.' Can you give me an example? Anthony
--- On Wed, 25/5/11, ED <[email protected]> wrote: From: ED <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, zen and Theravada Buddhism To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, 25 May, 2011, 10:41 PM Siska, From: ''On Zen practice: body, breath, mind" By Hakuyû Taizan Maezumi, Bernard Tetsugen Glassman, Wendy Egyoku Nakao, Robert Aitken, pp: 79-80 "In Zen practice, the first barrier is the seeing into one's true nature (this seeing is called kensho). Dogen Zenji asks us to join him on the highest peak. And yet this is just the beginning. We often see quite a few Zen students who quit after their first kensho experience; this is like being admitted to an excellent school and never taking any courses! This is clearly not right practice; it is not the practice of which Dogen Zenji writes." http://books.google.com/books?id=sYxszufGBs4C&pg=PA80&dq=maezumi+kensho&hl=en&ei=ORDdTb2tNeLQiAK6-4zpDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=maezumi%20kensho&f=false --ED --- In [email protected], siska_cen@... wrote: > Hi Bill, The literal meaning of kensho (or jian xing in chinese) is not first glimpse. If it is referred to as first glimpse, then perhaps it is experienced only once. Literal meaning of jian xing, as Anthony and Ed have explained to me, is seeing one's own nature. Some other descriptions say it happens very quickly and it is very clear. The experience of insight or nyana (nana) is where one sees the three characteristics of impermanence, sufferings and no-sef by experience. It is also very clear when it happens. That is why I concluded these two are same experience, referred to differently in different traditions. But I'm not sure. I wonder if Daniel is still around, I hope he is. Am I the only one, apart from Daniel, in this forum who has practised Theravada meditation before? Siska Siska, I was told 'kensho' meant 'first glimpse' or 'inital breakthrough'. It does imply it is a one-time thing since it uses the adjectives 'first' and 'initial'. As I've said below 'kensho' is also not permanent although the memory of 'kensho' is pretty persistant. I think it is a term mainly used in Japanese Renzai Zen Buddhism because their teaching techniques, such as koan study, are very aggressive (sudden enlighenment) and calibrated to push the student to experience Buddha Nature quickly. For that reason the first experience is somewhat shallow and fleeting. After that there is a long period of subsequent teachings (other types of koans) that help the student cultivate and integrate the experience of Buddha Nature into their everyday life. This can be contrasted with Japanese Soto Zen Buddhism whose teaching techniques are more subtle (gradual enlighenment) and geared to a longer initial period of prepartation so that when Buddha Nature is finally experienced the student is much better prepared. I don't know where I heard the following analogy, but it is: 'If enlightenment can be likened to being wet, Soto zen is like strolling aroung in a light mist for a long period of time before you suddenly realize you are soaking wet. Renzai zen is like being suddenly pushed into a swimming pool! You're wet, but you don't immediately know exactly what happened. ...Bill!
