ED, Please read (again) Warner-Schwarner's comments below, especially this one:
[Warner-Schwarner] The goal (or even "a goal") of zazen is not to clear your mind of thoughts. There is no goal of zazen. Kabeesh? ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "ED" <seacrofter001@...> wrote: > > > > > > If Zen is: "Just THIS.", what is the reason or motivation or objective > or justification or drive for doing zazen? > > --ED > > > > --- In [email protected], Chris Austin-Lane <chris@> wrote: > > > Lol! > > The history of that page is he wrote a book in which one chapter was > his 'Enlighenment' experience, rather typical such chapter based on my > readings of Three Pillers of Zen and other "White Guy Goes to Japan > and Gets Enlightened" type books. Then that chapter was anthologized > into Best Buddhist Writins of 20xx and prefaced with the description > that it is a description of kensho. Mr. Warner took offense to the > current usage of the word kensho as used in current Western zen, which > some people seem to mistake for a goal or a certification. > > He is particularly opposed to the idea that something can happen which > permanently makes life happy and carefree. The most profound > enlightenment, but still the student may die before the teacher. Life > is life, just as we see it. There is no solution, no answer, and > kensho, while a natural consequence of the right conditions, is simply > showing what passes before a thousand times a day. > > Here's some more current writing: > > >The goal (or even "a goal") of zazen is not to clear your mind of > thoughts. > There is no goal of zazen. > > >This is the hardest part of zazen practice; that there is no goal or > point to > it. You just sit and experience > > what you experience while sitting. That's it. > > >If you think a lot, then that is the content of your experience. If you > transcend all thought and zone > >out into pure white light or whatever, then that is the content of your > experience. Neither one > >is better or worse than the other. Our habit of defining certain > experiences as > better or > >worse than others is the problem. > > >Of course it's best not to use your zazen as a time to sit and ponder > stuff. > You are > >encouraged to let your thoughts go as soon as they appear. But that's > not the > same > >as trying to clear your mind of thoughts. Attempting to clear your mind > of > thoughts > >is just another type of goal-oriented intentional activity. > Goal-oriented > intentional > >activity is always problematic because it separates you from the real > >moment of the present. > > > > Siska, > > The excerpt in the link I read didn't seem to be mainstream anything. > In this article he basically wrote the following about 'kensho': > - He hadn't had one > - He had never talked to anyone who claimed to have had one > - He sarcastically described it as a 'download of knowledge from the > cosmos' and that it would 'solve all your problems' - both of which > are untrue. > > I'd bascially sum up my opinion of him as: Warner-Schrwarner. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected] > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=_GsCAe2VLJeKL72-NS2\ > TxANPbHwZaZbJLomATFv7GVbxO2pLsKL6rCUQ5ROuoMfIFzAT3GmyiaHPZEJBzVgU> , > siska_cen@ wrote: > >> Hi Chris, > > > > > The difference between sitting daily and sitting for a long period > of time > is sub... > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
