disagree... caterpillars create an architectural wonder and emerge as butterflies... merle
Merle, Math, music and architecture are not universal because these are all singularly human activities. There are other beings in the universe that are not human - like caterpillars. Like I said before, unless by 'universal' you mean 'common to all humans' these activities are not universal. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  bill..... please clarify...i am suggesting universal and if one  looks > hard and long and realises maths art music and now architecture are universal > ..point to me where it is not?..merle > > >  > Merle, > > Math, art, music and architecture are not universal because they are products > the human intellect, and the human intellect is not universal. > > If you fail to see my logic in this that's because logic also is not > universal but is a product of the human intellect. > > If by "realization and awakening" you mean "experiencing Buddha Nature" then > I would agree this is universally available to all sentient beings. It does > come "from deep inside the very core of one's (all sentient beings) being", > and that core is called 'Buddha Nature'. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > >  bill..i disagree..mathematics, art and music... no i will not include > > esperanto..you have to learn that and an australian aboriginal would not > > have this opportunity...that's one example... > >  explain to me why maths  art and music are not "universal > > languages"..i might just include architecture as well... > > i fail to see your logic in this > >  and realisation and awakening also is universal > >  as it comes from deep inside the very core of one's being > >  merle > >  > > Merle, > > > > In your list of universal languages you forgot to mention Esperanto. ;>) > > > > Seriously though, all the "languages" (modes of communication) you > > mentioned (math, art and music) are not 'universal'. You might be able to > > stretch them to 'human-wide', but I think it would stop there. > > > > You might be able to mount an argument for music having some communicative > > qualities to other species, less so for art but none at all for math. > > > > Once again, and as usual...IMO! > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >  mathematics is a universal language as is art and music..merle > > >  > > > PBS, > > > > > > Math, logic, reason like all delusions should come with the caveat > > > 'suitable for everyday use'. As a universal human language to > > > communicate our logical concepts it's very useful, but it should never be > > > mistaken for reality. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <pandabananasock@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill!: > > > > You're gonna ignore the math? I thought you said you were looking for > > > > an impersonal language a couple posts ago... :D > > > > > > > > The thing about using math that way is that eventually it leads you > > > > back to the beginning. We use mathematics as an expression of the > > > > model, then we use the model as an expression of the math. Then we > > > > realize that both are models of each other and the same, and experience > > > > encompasses all -- no need for anything else. Rivers and mountains > > > > become rivers and mountains again! > > > > ~PeeBeeEss > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > On Wed, 7/3/13, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of Cause-and-Effect and > > > > Karma > > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2013, 8:56 AM > > > > > > > > PBS (That's going to be my TLA (Three > > > > Letter Acronym) for Pandabananasock from now on)... > > > > > > > > I'll ignore all the math but do agree that JUST IF there is > > > > such a think that could be called 'karma' it's not so much a > > > > moralistic cause-and-effect as it is an intrinsic quality of > > > > the act itself. > > > > > > > > But, I'll continue to poo-poo all claims of karma. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, > > > > pandabananasock@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most people think of "1+1=2" as procedural, that is, > > > > that there is 1, THEN we add 1 to it, THEN it becomes > > > > 2. They would regard "2=1+1" and "2=2" to be different > > > > equations, but they are not in the least bit > > > > different. The equal-sign is the present. > > > > > "1+1" is already 2! And the effect IS the > > > > cause. Your karmic punishment for doing something > > > > "bad" is you doing that "bad" thing. Your karmic > > > > reward for doing something "good" is you doing that "good" > > > > thing. Forget the come-back-to-bite-you BS! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 4:58 AM EDT Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have > > > > read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > >   zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > >
