Merle,
Math, music and architecture are not universal because these are all singularly
human activities. There are other beings in the universe that are not human -
like caterpillars. Like I said before, unless by 'universal' you mean 'common
to all humans' these activities are not universal.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>  bill..... please clarify...i am suggesting universal and if one  looks
> hard and long and realises maths art music and now architecture are universal
> ..point to me where it is not?..merle
>
>
> Â
> Merle,
>
> Math, art, music and architecture are not universal because they are products
> the human intellect, and the human intellect is not universal.
>
> If you fail to see my logic in this that's because logic also is not
> universal but is a product of the human intellect.
>
> If by "realization and awakening" you mean "experiencing Buddha Nature" then
> I would agree this is universally available to all sentient beings. It does
> come "from deep inside the very core of one's (all sentient beings) being",
> and that core is called 'Buddha Nature'.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> >
> > ÃÂ bill..i disagree..mathematics, art and music... no i will not include
> > esperanto..you have to learn that and an australian aboriginal would not
> > have this opportunity...that's one example...
> > ÃÂ explain to me why maths ÃÂ art and music are not "universal
> > languages"..i might just include architecture as well...
> > i fail to see your logic in this
> > ÃÂ and realisation and awakening also is universal
> > ÃÂ as it comes from deep inside the very core of one's being
> > ÃÂ merle
> > ÃÂ
> > Merle,
> >
> > In your list of universal languages you forgot to mention Esperanto. ;>)
> >
> > Seriously though, all the "languages" (modes of communication) you
> > mentioned (math, art and music) are not 'universal'. You might be able to
> > stretch them to 'human-wide', but I think it would stop there.
> >
> > You might be able to mount an argument for music having some communicative
> > qualities to other species, less so for art but none at all for math.
> >
> > Once again, and as usual...IMO!
> >
> > ...Bill!
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ãâàmathematics is a universal language as is art and music..merle
> > > ÃâÃÂ
> > > PBS,
> > >
> > > Math, logic, reason like all delusions should come with the caveat
> > > 'suitable for everyday use'. As a universal human language to
> > > communicate our logical concepts it's very useful, but it should never be
> > > mistaken for reality.
> > >
> > > ...Bill!
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <pandabananasock@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bill!:
> > > > You're gonna ignore the math? I thought you said you were looking for
> > > > an impersonal language a couple posts ago... :D
> > > >
> > > > The thing about using math that way is that eventually it leads you
> > > > back to the beginning. We use mathematics as an expression of the
> > > > model, then we use the model as an expression of the math. Then we
> > > > realize that both are models of each other and the same, and experience
> > > > encompasses all -- no need for anything else. Rivers and mountains
> > > > become rivers and mountains again!
> > > > ~PeeBeeEss
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > > On Wed, 7/3/13, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of Cause-and-Effect and
> > > > Karma
> > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2013, 8:56 AM
> > > >
> > > > PBS (That's going to be my TLA (Three
> > > > Letter Acronym) for Pandabananasock from now on)...
> > > >
> > > > I'll ignore all the math but do agree that JUST IF there is
> > > > such a think that could be called 'karma' it's not so much a
> > > > moralistic cause-and-effect as it is an intrinsic quality of
> > > > the act itself.
> > > >
> > > > But, I'll continue to poo-poo all claims of karma.
> > > >
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > >
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > pandabananasock@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Most people think of "1+1=2" as procedural, that is,
> > > > that there is 1, THEN we add 1 to it, THEN it becomes
> > > > 2.ÃâàThey would regard "2=1+1" and "2=2" to be different
> > > > equations, but they are not in the least bit
> > > > different.ÃâàThe equal-sign is the present.
> > > > > "1+1" is already 2!ÃâàAnd the effect IS the
> > > > cause.ÃâàYour karmic punishment for doing something
> > > > "bad" is you doing that "bad" thing.ÃâàYour karmic
> > > > reward for doing something "good" is you doing that "good"
> > > > thing.ÃâàForget the come-back-to-bite-you BS!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >ÃâàOn Wed, Jul 3, 2013 4:58 AM EDT Bill! wrote:
> > > > >ÃâÃÂ
> > > > >Ãâà>
> > > > >Ãâà>...Bill!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have
> > > > read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups
> > > > Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ÃâàÃâàzen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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