Re: [Zen] Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of Cause-and-Effect and Karma

[Bill!]

Merle,

Maybe..but they're horrible at math and can't sing for shit...Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
>  disagree... caterpillars create an architectural wonder and emerge as 
> butterflies... merle
> 
> 
>   
> Merle,
> 
> Math, music and architecture are not universal because these are all 
> singularly human activities.  There are other beings in the universe that are 
> not human - like caterpillars.  Like I said before, unless by 'universal' you 
> mean 'common to all humans' these activities are not universal.
> 
> ...Bill!
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> >  bill..... please clarify...i am suggesting universal and if one  
> > looks hard and long and realises maths art music and now architecture are 
> > universal ..point to me where it is not?..merle
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > Merle,
> > 
> > Math, art, music and architecture are not universal because they are 
> > products the human intellect, and the human intellect is not universal.
> > 
> > If you fail to see my logic in this that's because logic also is not 
> > universal but is a product of the human intellect.
> > 
> > If by "realization and awakening" you mean "experiencing Buddha Nature" 
> > then I would agree this is universally available to all sentient beings.  
> > It does come "from deep inside the very core of one's (all sentient beings) 
> > being", and that core is called 'Buddha Nature'.
> > 
> > ...Bill!
> > 
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> > >
> > >  bill..i disagree..mathematics, art and music... no i will not 
> > > include esperanto..you have to learn that and an australian aboriginal 
> > > would not have this opportunity...that's one example...
> > >  explain to me why maths  art and music are not 
> > > "universal languages"..i might just include architecture as well...
> > > i fail to see your logic in this
> > >  and realisation and awakening also is universal
> > >  as it comes from deep inside the very core of one's being
> > >  merle
> > >   
> > > Merle,
> > > 
> > > In your list of universal languages you forgot to mention Esperanto.  ;>)
> > > 
> > > Seriously though, all the "languages" (modes of communication) you 
> > > mentioned (math, art and music) are not 'universal'.  You might be able 
> > > to stretch them to 'human-wide', but I think it would stop there.
> > > 
> > > You might be able to mount an argument for music having some 
> > > communicative qualities to other species, less so for art but none at all 
> > > for math.
> > > 
> > > Once again, and as usual...IMO!
> > > 
> > > ...Bill!
> > > 
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ mathematics is a universal language as is art and 
> > > > music..merle
> > > > ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > PBS,
> > > > 
> > > > Math, logic, reason like all delusions should come with the caveat 
> > > > 'suitable for everyday use'.  As a universal human language to 
> > > > communicate our logical concepts it's very useful, but it should never 
> > > > be mistaken for reality.
> > > > 
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > > 
> > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <pandabananasock@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill!:
> > > > > You're gonna ignore the math?  I thought you said you were looking 
> > > > > for an impersonal language a couple posts ago... :D
> > > > > 
> > > > > The thing about using math that way is that eventually it leads you 
> > > > > back to the beginning.  We use mathematics as an expression of the 
> > > > > model, then we use the model as an expression of the math.  Then we 
> > > > > realize that both are models of each other and the same, and 
> > > > > experience encompasses all -- no need for anything else.  Rivers and 
> > > > > mountains become rivers and mountains again!
> > > > > ~PeeBeeEss 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --------------------------------------------
> > > > > On Wed, 7/3/13, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > >  Subject: Re: [Zen] Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of Cause-and-Effect 
> > > > > and Karma
> > > > >  To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >  Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2013, 8:56 AM
> > > > > 
> > > > >  PBS (That's going to be my TLA (Three
> > > > >  Letter Acronym) for Pandabananasock from now on)...
> > > > > 
> > > > >  I'll ignore all the math but do agree that JUST IF there is
> > > > >  such a think that could be called 'karma' it's not so much a
> > > > >  moralistic cause-and-effect as it is an intrinsic quality of
> > > > >  the act itself.
> > > > > 
> > > > >  But, I'll continue to poo-poo all claims of karma.
> > > > > 
> > > > >  ...Bill!
> > > > > 
> > > > >  --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > >  pandabananasock@ wrote:
> > > > >  >
> > > > >  > 
> > > > >  > Most people think of "1+1=2" as procedural, that is,
> > > > >  that there is 1, THEN we add 1 to it, THEN it becomes
> > > > >  2.ÃÆ'‚  They would regard "2=1+1" and "2=2" to be 
> > > > > different
> > > > >  equations, but they are not in the least bit
> > > > >  different.ÃÆ'‚  The equal-sign is the present.
> > > > >  > "1+1" is already 2!ÃÆ'‚  And the effect IS the
> > > > >  cause.ÃÆ'‚  Your karmic punishment for doing something
> > > > >  "bad" is you doing that "bad" thing.ÃÆ'‚  Your karmic
> > > > >  reward for doing something "good" is you doing that "good"
> > > > >  thing.ÃÆ'‚  Forget the come-back-to-bite-you BS!
> > > > >  > 
> > > > >  > 
> > > > >  > ------------------------------
> > > > >  >ÃÆ'‚  On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 4:58 AM EDT Bill! wrote:
> > > > >  >ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > >  >ÃÆ'‚  >
> > > > >  >ÃÆ'‚  >...Bill!
> > > > >  >
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >  ------------------------------------
> > > > > 
> > > > >  Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have
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> > > > >  Links
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >  ÃÆ'‚  ÃÆ'‚  
> > > > > zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>




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