sorry i am not..
that is how us humans learn. how do you think the idea of a aeroplane came into being...? i think leonardo da vinci would have your argument as wanting.. we learn from nature.. not the other way around merle Merle, Are you seriously implying that a spider uses math to build his web? It is your human intellect that judges the spider's web to be a work of mathematically-based architecture. You are anthropomorphizing and projecting your human delusions onto a the spider and the web. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > >  this is your opinion bill.. > a delusional mind at work... > let's try a spider's web's.. > tell me they are not architectural mathematical wonders... > merle >  >  > Merle, > > Maybe..but they're horrible at math and can't sing for shit...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > >  disagree... caterpillars create an architectural wonder and emerge as > > butterflies... merle > > > > > >  > > Merle, > > > > Math, music and architecture are not universal because these are all > > singularly human activities. There are other beings in the universe that > > are not human - like caterpillars. Like I said before, unless by > > 'universal' you mean 'common to all humans' these activities are not > > universal. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >  bill..... please clarify...i am suggesting universal and if one > > >  looks hard and long and realises maths art music and now > > > architecture are universal ..point to me where it is not?..merle > > > > > > > > >  > > > Merle, > > > > > > Math, art, music and architecture are not universal because they are > > > products the human intellect, and the human intellect is not universal. > > > > > > If you fail to see my logic in this that's because logic also is not > > > universal but is a product of the human intellect. > > > > > > If by "realization and awakening" you mean "experiencing Buddha Nature" > > > then I would agree this is universally available to all sentient beings. > > > It does come "from deep inside the very core of one's (all sentient > > > beings) being", and that core is called 'Buddha Nature'. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ bill..i disagree..mathematics, art and music... no > > > > i will not include esperanto..you have to learn that and an australian > > > > aboriginal would not have this opportunity...that's one example... > > > > ÃÆ'‚ explain to me why maths ÃÆ'‚ art and > > > > music are not "universal languages"..i might just include architecture > > > > as well... > > > > i fail to see your logic in this > > > > ÃÆ'‚ and realisation and awakening also is universal > > > > ÃÆ'‚ as it comes from deep inside the very core of one's > > > > being > > > > ÃÆ'‚ merle > > > > ÃÆ'‚ > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > In your list of universal languages you forgot to mention Esperanto. > > > > ;>) > > > > > > > > Seriously though, all the "languages" (modes of communication) you > > > > mentioned (math, art and music) are not 'universal'. You might be able > > > > to stretch them to 'human-wide', but I think it would stop there. > > > > > > > > You might be able to mount an argument for music having some > > > > communicative qualities to other species, less so for art but none at > > > > all for math. > > > > > > > > Once again, and as usual...IMO! > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ mathematics is a universal > > > > > language as is art and music..merle > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > PBS, > > > > > > > > > > Math, logic, reason like all delusions should come with the caveat > > > > > 'suitable for everyday use'. As a universal human language to > > > > > communicate our logical concepts it's very useful, but it should > > > > > never be mistaken for reality. > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <pandabananasock@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill!: > > > > > > You're gonna ignore the math? I thought you said you were looking > > > > > > for an impersonal language a couple posts ago... :D > > > > > > > > > > > > The thing about using math that way is that eventually it leads you > > > > > > back to the beginning. We use mathematics as an expression of the > > > > > > model, then we use the model as an expression of the math. Then we > > > > > > realize that both are models of each other and the same, and > > > > > > experience encompasses all -- no need for anything else. Rivers > > > > > > and mountains become rivers and mountains again! > > > > > > ~PeeBeeEss > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > On Wed, 7/3/13, Bill! <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Say Bye-Bye to the Delusion of Cause-and-Effect > > > > > > and Karma > > > > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2013, 8:56 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > PBS (That's going to be my TLA (Three > > > > > > Letter Acronym) for Pandabananasock from now on)... > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll ignore all the math but do agree that JUST IF there is > > > > > > such a think that could be called 'karma' it's not so much a > > > > > > moralistic cause-and-effect as it is an intrinsic quality of > > > > > > the act itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > But, I'll continue to poo-poo all claims of karma. > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, > > > > > > pandabananasock@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most people think of "1+1=2" as procedural, that is, > > > > > > that there is 1, THEN we add 1 to it, THEN it becomes > > > > > > 2.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ They would regard > > > > > > "2=1+1" and "2=2" to be different > > > > > > equations, but they are not in the least bit > > > > > > different.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ The > > > > > > equal-sign is the present. > > > > > > > "1+1" is already 2!ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > And the effect IS the > > > > > > cause.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ Your karmic > > > > > > punishment for doing something > > > > > > "bad" is you doing that "bad" > > > > > > thing.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ Your karmic > > > > > > reward for doing something "good" is you doing that "good" > > > > > > thing.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ Forget the > > > > > > come-back-to-bite-you BS! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 > > > > > > 4:58 AM EDT Bill! wrote: > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > > >ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ >...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have > > > > > > read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
