Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On May 15, 2020 9:46:16 AM AKDT, Theo de Raadt wrote: >It is amazing how you keep digging up additional mandates for the >OpenBSD project! > >Brilliant work. > >I'm wondering if you have an view on our UFO research? > > There's Area 51, of course, from the same _area_ as SCO and the headquarters of GoDaddy, the popular domain registrar. How far is Roswell from Santa Cruz? New Mexico is a mental health state. It's not clear what did or didn't happen, but the ancient feudal system of Spanish common law remains to this day in the Southwest U.S. as if the revolution of Cinco de Mayo has been rolled back, never mind U.S. independence and jurisdiction in that area. E.U. and NATO are operating there, it would seem. More in my area we have H.A.A.R.P. (High-altitude Active Auroral Research Project) which grew out of some strangely conceived joint project between Eielson Air Force Base officials and University of Alaska Fairbanks faculty back from when (mostly liberal) college students and (mostly conservative) military personnel had somewhat more peaceful and cordial relations than they do today. The top-secret project is still in existence, reportedly with private non-governmental funding from philanthropist George Soros, who is rather quite at odds and not very well disposed at all toward the current presidential administration of Donald Trump. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
I have hosted a meetup on OpenBSD a month ago - just a general introduction into the system, plus pledge / unveil, plus dynamic kernel relinking, etc, etc. About thirty people has attended. And you know, the audience welcomes that type of simple stuff and asks for continuation. I know there are russian speaking developers in the community. Please reach out to me directly if you're interested in giving a talk on anything around OpenBSD or just discussing. Venue and audience are on me. Ilya On 2020-05-14 18:03, Austin Hook wrote: > Bravo, Aisha, > > I myself was wondering why "advocacy" no longer shows up on the lists of > OpenBSD mailing lists. It was a nice place to discuss ideas that are not > just confined to technical software matters. I see that is still works > however. Next thing is to ask the devs if they would consider putting it > back. > > Austin > > > On Thu, 14 May 2020, Aisha Tammy wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I was wondering why this list is a bit dead (?!) and hoping to gain >> some ideas for maybe reviving it. >> >> I totally understand that most people at openbsd are devs and would >> like to focus more on coding than advocacy so I was wondering if people >> like me who are not that techy (mostly small ports) can help with >> this part. >> >> I am open to constructive criticism, so please forgive me if I seem >> out of touch. I have been subscribed for close to a month and didn't >> notice a lot of things happening around here :( so I was hoping >> to spice things up a tiny bit. >> >> Most of the ways in which I have tried previously is my creating >> whole bunch of small openbsd github projects and sharing them on reddit >> and twitter. But like this is barely scratching the surface of social >> media. I feel like there is a lot more that could be done :) >> >> Some of the basic things which I feel like are low hanging fruits >> >> (1) Showcasing tutorials on setting up small projects. >> >> One of the things that people get a good feeling from (me included) >> is when we manage to get some service running, no matter how small >> or insignificant it is. Like getting my znc setup, I was riding on >> that high for like 2 weeks (I know this sounds a bit dumb cuz I am >> a noob, but it was pretty nice to feel like I accomplished something). >> >> So it might be nice to show how to set up small services. >> I mean things like setting up a blog (using worpress or similar), >> or a wiki, or a hugo/jekyll website. >> >> There are a lot of really nice blog posts by a lot of cool people >> which show work arounds (for quirks) for these things in OpenBSD. >> >> It might be nice to have some kind of highlights page at openbsd >> which shows these nice links. (I know undeadly.org exists but is >> not pointed to by openbsd.org, would be nice if that could be done >> if nothng else is possible) >> >> I feel like while OpenBSD has really awesome benefits, the communication >> of these with the community could do with some work. >> >> (2) Having a bit more of a social presence >> >> Doesn't need to be facebook/twitter. I know undeadly.org has some really nice >> articles with highlight for nice things happening in the tech/ports lists >> but unfortunately undeadly is not that well known >> >> While I am by no means a social media expert I still feel the lack of >> presence of OpenBSD in general media articles and published stories. >> >> I am open to some idea about how to try and increase this part. >> Some ways I can think of: >> A) Getting in contact with news letter publishers and letting them >> know of nice developments that have happened. I don't think that >> linux news letters would be averse to having openbsd information >> sent on them. >> I am sure a lot of them would love if we send them information >> and do some of the work of finding articles for them, which ties >> into my previous part of having a highlights page >> B) Having an official blog >> I feel like this is a pretty important thing, especially in nowadays, >> where most things are spread online. Having an official blog will make >> things very easy for a lot of people to get interested. I am sure that >> there are quite a lot of people willing to chip in for this part if it >> was announced that there is going to be such an endeavor. >> C) (A controversial point) Trying to make things look a bit more >> stylistic (please don't kill me T.T ) >> While I agree that clarity is the most important part a small amount >> of color in the official documentation is not the worst thing in >> the world. I am open to this part being thrown out. >> >> (3) Showcasing a page for people to get involved in various parts of >> the project >> >> Currently the pipeline to get involved seems like >> try out obsd -> find something you find is not working or you don't like -> >> find person working on it -> contact them -> bug report/patch to
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On Sat, 16 May 2020, Justina Colmena ~biz wrote: > On May 14, 2020 7:23:11 PM AKDT, Theo de Raadt wrote: > >That's incredibly insightful! > > > >You are precisely the true leader OpenBSD needs to compete in the > >harsh corporate environment that gives us no respect! > That might be going a bit far. You talk about *crying* on a public > mailing list, and that's pretty much how it is in any case if you've got > a PayPal or eBay account. It's nothing but a phishing scam. They "phish" > you for information and everything you own. There's a vanity license > plate "PHISH" parked next door to an auctioneer in Anchorage. People > think it's cute because chartered and guided sport fishing is offered to > tourists. I'm not welcome in town anymore, needless to say. It's an > auction or a crying sale for everything, and some of you folks ask for > people to buy computer stuff and hardware for you there. > > People shamelessly burglarize, steal, rob, and extort in order to > acquire all this stuff, including firearms, and then they sell it at > auction, all 100% legal passed an FBI background check fingerprints and > everything. > > Meanwhile, I have been gradually and progressively shut out of the > PayPal // eBay market and trespassed off the property of the U.S. Postal > Service, Best Buy and other places where computer parts and hardware are > sold. I can't obtain any of this hardware any more than anybody else > can, and I usually have to pay a lot more for it than others do, to > boot, if I'm even allowed to keep any computer parts in my possession > without getting busted on a felony warrant by Nazi cops straight out of > City Hall. > > It's getting bad. I'm not lying here. I want to know exactly who these > cops are, who's paying them, exactly how much, and what their political > or "family" motivations are for suddenly striking with false > accusations in court and filing false criminal charges from time to > time, apparently at random, but year after year without letup, in > carefully arranged "setups" against certain Targeted Individuals and > Personae Non Gratae. > > I'm not trying to be a terrorist or go off on a shooting rampage or > anything like that: it's precisely those same gun control politicians > who insist with a straight face in federal court that computer > cryptography is a munition of war subject to their gun control export > regulations. Doesn't sound likely. I have an eBay account myself. I buy and sell some stuff. No problem. I'm not afraid to be who I am. I don't feel the need to use pseudonyms, or being found out where I am. (Near Milk River, Alberta). Sure I use DuckDuckGo instead of Google. I use private mode when browsing, but really don't have anything to hide. Not really trying to. I use OpenBSD. Communicate with various servers using SSH. Use proxy servers some times. Basically just to minimize spam. I have worked in politics from time to time, and had strong differences of opinion with nearly everyone, but always ready to listen carefully to different opinions. Worked in civil rights in the early sixties. Had buddies killed by local cops down south. Came within a hair's breath of being taken down, on one occasion. Sure there were corrupt racist cops locally, but no national conspiracy against us. Worked in the anti-war movement later. Helped perhaps 1,000 folks settle in Canada. Yes, I got harassed a bit for my views. But nothing like what you are talking about. Do you have a conviction for something that says you can't own computer equipment? May as well share the whole story. What do you mean, no one can buy computer equipment these days? Costco is full of them. Best Buy is too. Build your own from scratch, or start with a Raspberry Pi and scale up from there. Plenty of old computers around to do good work with. Just go for it. Worst thing happening at this moment is the attempt to outlaw full private (no backdoor) encryption in the US. Probably it's the number one issue we should all fight. Such an event would essentially destroy OpenBSD. But on the whole your message sounds a bit unhinged. Hope all is OK with you. Regards, Hook the Crook
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On May 14, 2020 7:23:11 PM AKDT, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>That's incredibly insightful!
>
>You are precisely the true leader OpenBSD needs to compete in the
>harsh corporate environment that gives us no respect!
That might be going a bit far. You talk about *crying* on a public mailing
list, and that's pretty much how it is in any case if you've got a PayPal or
eBay account. It's nothing but a phishing scam. They "phish" you for
information and everything you own. There's a vanity license plate "PHISH"
parked next door to an auctioneer in Anchorage. People think it's cute because
chartered and guided sport fishing is offered to tourists. I'm not welcome in
town anymore, needless to say. It's an auction or a crying sale for everything,
and some of you folks ask for people to buy computer stuff and hardware for you
there.
People shamelessly burglarize, steal, rob, and extort in order to acquire all
this stuff, including firearms, and then they sell it at auction, all 100%
legal passed an FBI background check fingerprints and everything.
Meanwhile, I have been gradually and progressively shut out of the PayPal //
eBay market and trespassed off the property of the U.S. Postal Service, Best
Buy and other places where computer parts and hardware are sold. I can't obtain
any of this hardware any more than anybody else can, and I usually have to pay
a lot more for it than others do, to boot, if I'm even allowed to keep any
computer parts in my possession without getting busted on a felony warrant by
Nazi cops straight out of City Hall.
It's getting bad. I'm not lying here. I want to know exactly who these cops
are, who's paying them, exactly how much, and what their political or "family"
motivations are for suddenly striking with false accusations in court and
filing false criminal charges from time to time, apparently at random, but year
after year without letup, in carefully arranged "setups" against certain
Targeted Individuals and Personae Non Gratae.
I'm not trying to be a terrorist or go off on a shooting rampage or anything
like that: it's precisely those same gun control politicians who insist with a
straight face in federal court that computer cryptography is a munition of war
subject to their gun control export regulations.
>
>
>
>Justina Colmena ~biz wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 14, 2020 5:24:38 PM AKDT, Theo de Raadt
>wrote:
>> >
>> >So you go find a mailing list noone in the industry reads,
>> >and *cry* into it.
>> >
>> >never know, it might change the world. Or not.
>> >
>> "In the industry" again. Here we go again. I've been banlisted and
>blackballed out of all those "labor unions" since my youth. They had a
>"VICA" club at my high school many years ago, and I was not invited.
>>
>> >> I'm not trying to be religious here, but Martin Luther and others
>> >have explained that we cannot make it to heaven or achieve success
>in
>> >this life by works of the law.
>> >
>> >nor can you by crying about hardware injustice on a mailing list
>> >read by noone
>>
>> Certain "working class" people aggressively claim all sorts of
>collective bargaining, work-related and employment rights and then they
>ride roughshod over basic human rights for everyone and everything
>else. It's the Mob. And then the bosses play right into their hands
>with delusions of "intellectual property," 100-year corporate
>copyrights, employee non-compete agreements and non-disclosure
>agreements, business-method patent portfolios, selectively enforced
>trademarks on common dictionary words, and government top secret
>classification for business trade secrets.
>>
>> Then the "free software" folks hired some of the same lawyers to come
>up with the "GPL," and there's an "established" Linux kernel to boot
>all that GNU software, and the Santa Cruz Operation ("SCO" out of the
>same vice district as Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, and Denver) hit them
>with poisoned code, cartel copyright allegations, and a magic solution,
>"Well, if you didn't release such reliable mission-critical code to the
>public, all would be well for the mil-spec employment market in Silicon
>Valley (San Francisco, California.)
>>
>> Noone? I don't know. In French they say «personne» unless they're
>lawyers, in which case they say «nulle personne» … they're workers. You
>can't fire them. They never quit. They're always "serving" you in court
>or at law with something or another you didn't order and you don't
>want.
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On May 15, 2020 3:04:06 AM AKDT, jeanfrancois wrote: >Justine, > >No one except a few people probably make OpenBSD so you won't >find what you expect here, except what you put in if we can say so. There is too much "help" out there, and no enterprise to speak of. The risk of criminal prosecution is too high, people are dealing drugs on OpenBSD, and the cops are cracking down, but it sure ain't the dealers taking the fall for the drugs in any court of law. It's us "users" who haven't paid our dues for "protection" from the usual extortion rackets in town, not that we actually made a "choice" of our own free will to do anything illegal. > >So it depends upon if you find it worthwhile to investigate. > >I deeply think OpenBSD needs to remain small that's all, but it's free A small trusted (audited) code base is great: lean and mean is definitely the right spirit, but some of the underlying hardware and the interfaces to connect to it are getting out of hand. It's undocumented, or poorly documented, subject to NDA and exclusive agreements with SCO and MSFT. I would need to get basic laptop hardware recognized and booted properly before I'm SWATted, trespassed off the property, arrested, and end up having all my computer equipment confiscated by corrupt thin-blue-line-flag cops on the take. No I'm not blaming OpenBSD, don't take it that way. It's the Chaos Computer Club, the Cult of the Dead Cow, and similar groups who have gotten into the U.S. government and gained the ability to file and prosecute arbitrary criminal charges against Targeted Individuals. >you can use it if you like, and even create projects and then let us >know about it. Nice. I can "use" it, "responsibly," I presume. I'm not a "hacker" and I'm not breaking any laws and I'm not taking anyone's paid job away by using open source. > >That's what advocacy also is for. Well I probably do need an attorney to defend myself against all the civil and criminal allegations from the SCO team et alia, or I would, except all those attorneys are on Facebook and Twitter, they use Microsoft Windows in the office, and they're in trouble with the bar because they're all THIEVES IN LAW (воры в законе) hard at work stealing money, confiscating property, and REVOKING basic human rights and dignities "on vice" for life without recourse. Sorry for the rant, but somehow we've got to get a grip on serious organized crime, somehow grab those guys by their scruffy white collars or dirty blue collars or whatever is the requisite clothing for their chosen profession or vocation, haul *them* into their own court system, make *them* face the charges for their crimes, rather than allowing them to live a life of crime and use their court system as a tool against us. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
It is amazing how you keep digging up additional mandates for the OpenBSD project! Brilliant work. I'm wondering if you have an view on our UFO research? Justina Colmena ~biz wrote: > > > > On May 15, 2020 3:04:06 AM AKDT, jeanfrancois wrote: > >Justine, > > > >No one except a few people probably make OpenBSD so you won't > >find what you expect here, except what you put in if we can say so. > There is too much "help" out there, and no enterprise to speak of. The risk > of criminal prosecution is too high, people are dealing drugs on OpenBSD, and > the cops are cracking down, but it sure ain't the dealers taking the fall for > the drugs in any court of law. It's us "users" who haven't paid our dues for > "protection" from the usual extortion rackets in town, not that we actually > made a "choice" of our own free will to do anything illegal. > > > > >So it depends upon if you find it worthwhile to investigate. > > > >I deeply think OpenBSD needs to remain small that's all, but it's free > A small trusted (audited) code base is great: lean and mean is definitely the > right spirit, but some of the underlying hardware and the interfaces to > connect to it are getting out of hand. It's undocumented, or poorly > documented, subject to NDA and exclusive agreements with SCO and MSFT. > > I would need to get basic laptop hardware recognized and booted properly > before I'm SWATted, trespassed off the property, arrested, and end up having > all my computer equipment confiscated by corrupt thin-blue-line-flag cops on > the take. > > No I'm not blaming OpenBSD, don't take it that way. It's the Chaos Computer > Club, the Cult of the Dead Cow, and similar groups who have gotten into the > U.S. government and gained the ability to file and prosecute arbitrary > criminal charges against Targeted Individuals. > > >you can use it if you like, and even create projects and then let us > >know about it. > Nice. I can "use" it, "responsibly," I presume. I'm not a "hacker" and I'm > not breaking any laws and I'm not taking anyone's paid job away by using open > source. > > > >That's what advocacy also is for. > Well I probably do need an attorney to defend myself against all the civil > and criminal allegations from the SCO team et alia, or I would, except all > those attorneys are on Facebook and Twitter, they use Microsoft Windows in > the office, and they're in trouble with the bar because they're all THIEVES > IN LAW (воры в законе) hard at work stealing money, confiscating property, > and REVOKING basic human rights and dignities "on vice" for life without > recourse. > > Sorry for the rant, but somehow we've got to get a grip on serious organized > crime, somehow grab those guys by their scruffy white collars or dirty blue > collars or whatever is the requisite clothing for their chosen profession or > vocation, haul *them* into their own court system, make *them* face the > charges for their crimes, rather than allowing them to live a life of crime > and use their court system as a tool against us. > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
Austin Hook wrote: > However, preserving personal freedom and safety from crooks and corruption > is an important, if endless task.One person can't do much, but of > course, it's all those one person commitments that gave us what we have > now. Find what you can do best, do it, and share the news. It should > inspire others. No kidding, especially from crooks like you.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On Fri, 15 May 2020, Justina Colmena ~biz wrote: > On May 15, 2020 3:04:06 AM AKDT, jeanfrancois wrote: > >Justine, > > > >No one except a few people probably make OpenBSD so you won't > >find what you expect here, except what you put in if we can say so. > There is too much "help" out there, and no enterprise to speak of. The > risk of criminal prosecution is too high, people are dealing drugs on > OpenBSD, and the cops are cracking down, but it sure ain't the dealers > taking the fall for the drugs in any court of law. It's us "users" who > haven't paid our dues for "protection" from the usual extortion rackets > in town, not that we actually made a "choice" of our own free will to do > anything illegal. > > > > >So it depends upon if you find it worthwhile to investigate. > > > >I deeply think OpenBSD needs to remain small that's all, but it's free > A small trusted (audited) code base is great: lean and mean is > definitely the right spirit, but some of the underlying hardware and the > interfaces to connect to it are getting out of hand. It's undocumented, > or poorly documented, subject to NDA and exclusive agreements with SCO > and MSFT. > > I would need to get basic laptop hardware recognized and booted properly > before I'm SWATted, trespassed off the property, arrested, and end up > having all my computer equipment confiscated by corrupt > thin-blue-line-flag cops on the take. > > No I'm not blaming OpenBSD, don't take it that way. It's the Chaos > Computer Club, the Cult of the Dead Cow, and similar groups who have > gotten into the U.S. government and gained the ability to file and > prosecute arbitrary criminal charges against Targeted Individuals. > > >you can use it if you like, and even create projects and then let us > >know about it. > Nice. I can "use" it, "responsibly," I presume. I'm not a "hacker" and > I'm not breaking any laws and I'm not taking anyone's paid job away by > using open source. > > > >That's what advocacy also is for. > Well I probably do need an attorney to defend myself against all the > civil and criminal allegations from the SCO team et alia, or I would, > except all those attorneys are on Facebook and Twitter, they use > Microsoft Windows in the office, and they're in trouble with the bar > because they're all THIEVES IN LAW ( ? ??) hard at work stealing > money, confiscating property, and REVOKING basic human rights and > dignities "on vice" for life without recourse. > > Sorry for the rant, but somehow we've got to get a grip on serious > organized crime, somehow grab those guys by their scruffy white collars > or dirty blue collars or whatever is the requisite clothing for their > chosen profession or vocation, haul *them* into their own court system, > make *them* face the charges for their crimes, rather than allowing them > to live a life of crime and use their court system as a tool against us. Sounds a bit paranoid to me. However, preserving personal freedom and safety from crooks and corruption is an important, if endless task.One person can't do much, but of course, it's all those one person commitments that gave us what we have now. Find what you can do best, do it, and share the news. It should inspire others. OpenBSD, in it's field, is one of the most pure and interesting examples of that kind of philosophy. A.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
Justine, No one except a few people probably make OpenBSD so you won't find what you expect here, except what you put in if we can say so. So it depends upon if you find it worthwhile to investigate. I deeply think OpenBSD needs to remain small that's all, but it's free you can use it if you like, and even create projects and then let us know about it. That's what advocacy also is for. Regards JF
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
Hi, This means do things and make advocacy I'd guess, to be honest BSD's about 0,1% usage though a real backbone at some critical points of the network, this means there's really no one do to the job, it's used and programmed at the same time, for real usage. So far as example it's the nat rooter in virtual environment for some people, their local rooter, server, firewall, so almost anything we can do is work out solution and share with others. Regards Jean-François Le 15/05/2020 à 03:06, Theo de Raadt a écrit : You've done nothing except believe that words are action. Aisha Tammy wrote: On 5/14/20 8:52 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: Aisha Tammy wrote: On 5/14/20 7:24 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: Kyle Willett wrote: I think OpenBSD advocacy could do more too. I read on an open source news site that Lenovo is going to start offering a Fedora Linux option on their Thinkpad lineup and already certifies some for Red Hat Enterprise Linux. I think it would be great if we could get some Who is "we"? hardware manufacturer to certify OpenBSD on a device and offer it pre-installed as an OS choice. I think that would be a good thing for the project. Maybe an AMD64 x86_64 laptop is too much at first and maybe we should start with one of the arm or mips laptops supported Who is "we"? well by OpenBSD. I don't know just a dream I have. Why go around telling people your dreams? Why not do all this yourself? You don't need a mailing list for it. Is it your dream that others in the group "we" will do what you dream? What you are doing here is advocating that other people do that which you don't and won't do yourself. To be honest, it comes off small minded. There are many possible assumptions of what they could have meant, I don't think there is a need to be overly harsh to their attitude. For all I know they might be an enthusiastic college student who wants to help. I suspect you are an enthusiastic person who wants to send a mail to us, telling us what to do. Sorry if it seemed like that. I am not telling anyone what to do. I am asking for suggestions on what I could do more. But that which you dream of? You won't left a leg to do any of it. Voicing your ideas and finding like minded people is a good motivator for doing a project. No, doing work is what makes projects. You are just typing words @Kyle, I do appreciate your enthusiasm. That said, I do agree that going straight to hardware is far from what is possible as a short term goal. I think it is better by starting to do small things, I agree it is better to DO THINGS. But you are writing words. I do try to help in any small way that I can in ports@, though I am not too good at it yet. I've already asked the newsletters to hopefully include the recent news about wireguard patches (even though it is not confirmed to be included yet, please don't kill me over this) and hopefully I get a positive response :) . The world is so full of writing about writing about doing stuff, but short of people who actually do stuff. You are one of those writers, it appears... I know this is not a lot but I am hoping slowly things can turn up for the better. As always, am open any other ideas you might have. (I tried to be terse, I think I failed) What a waste of time. In that case, could you tell what was the idea behind creating an advocacy list, which on the site says: for promoting the use of OpenBSD ? Is this not what it is? I am also confused why so furious at me? I don't think I've done anything horrible?
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On Thu, 14 May 2020, Theo de Raadt wrote: > That's incredibly insightful! > > You are precisely the true leader OpenBSD needs to compete in the > harsh corporate environment that gives us no respect! Maybe I was wrong. I thought that "advocacy" had disappeared from the official collection of mailing lists. But in any case I see it does appear there now. Maybe just restored? Used to be a good place to let distractions have there place, so as not to bother the developers. Looks like it's back on that track... Probably works just as well (or badly) without all the cc's. :-) A.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On May 14, 2020 5:24:38 PM AKDT, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>
>So you go find a mailing list noone in the industry reads,
>and *cry* into it.
>
>never know, it might change the world. Or not.
>
"In the industry" again. Here we go again. I've been banlisted and blackballed
out of all those "labor unions" since my youth. They had a "VICA" club at my
high school many years ago, and I was not invited.
>> I'm not trying to be religious here, but Martin Luther and others
>have explained that we cannot make it to heaven or achieve success in
>this life by works of the law.
>
>nor can you by crying about hardware injustice on a mailing list
>read by noone
Certain "working class" people aggressively claim all sorts of collective
bargaining, work-related and employment rights and then they ride roughshod
over basic human rights for everyone and everything else. It's the Mob. And
then the bosses play right into their hands with delusions of "intellectual
property," 100-year corporate copyrights, employee non-compete agreements and
non-disclosure agreements, business-method patent portfolios, selectively
enforced trademarks on common dictionary words, and government top secret
classification for business trade secrets.
Then the "free software" folks hired some of the same lawyers to come up with
the "GPL," and there's an "established" Linux kernel to boot all that GNU
software, and the Santa Cruz Operation ("SCO" out of the same vice district as
Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, and Denver) hit them with poisoned code, cartel
copyright allegations, and a magic solution, "Well, if you didn't release such
reliable mission-critical code to the public, all would be well for the
mil-spec employment market in Silicon Valley (San Francisco, California.)
Noone? I don't know. In French they say «personne» unless they're lawyers, in
which case they say «nulle personne» … they're workers. You can't fire them.
They never quit. They're always "serving" you in court or at law with something
or another you didn't order and you don't want.
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On May 14, 2020 4:52:05 PM AKDT, Theo de Raadt wrote: >Aisha Tammy wrote: > ... > >I suspect you are an enthusiastic person who wants to send a mail to >us, >telling us what to do. > >But that which you dream of? You won't left a leg to do any of it. > Lift a leg? We simply cannot get our hands out of these proprietary computer hardware legal handcuffs anywhere in the U.S. or Canada to help out in any technical capacity. >> Voicing your ideas and finding like minded people is a good motivator >for >> doing a project. > >No, doing work is what makes projects. > I'm not trying to be religious here, but Martin Luther and others have explained that we cannot make it to heaven or achieve success in this life by works of the law. > >What a waste of time. "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak..." Jesus! -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On May 14, 2020 3:24:32 PM AKDT, Theo de Raadt wrote: >Kyle Willett wrote: > >> I think OpenBSD advocacy could do more too. I read on an open source >> news site that Lenovo is going to start offering a Fedora Linux >option >> on their Thinkpad lineup and already certifies some for Red Hat >> Enterprise Linux. I think it would be great if we could get some > >Who is "we"? I (for one) am currently the proud owner of a Lenovo IdeaPad L340 with 4 dual-core processors on it. > >> hardware manufacturer to certify OpenBSD on a device and offer it >> pre-installed as an OS choice. I think that would be a good thing >for >> the project. Maybe an AMD64 x86_64 laptop is too much at first and >> maybe we should start with one of the arm or mips laptops supported > >Who is "we"? > >> well by OpenBSD. I don't know just a dream I have. > I am currently running Fedora 31 and I would strongly consider switching back to OpenBSD, as I have used it in the past, if the proper hardware support were in place. >Why go around telling people your dreams? Why not do all this >yourself? >You don't need a mailing list for it. Is it your dream that others in >the >group "we" will do what you dream? > >What you are doing here is advocating that other people do that which >you don't and won't do yourself. To be honest, it comes off small >minded. "We" are suffering from many of the same hardware problems you are, when you can't get documentation from the manufacturers of hardware devices, __without an NDA__, to write OpenBSD drivers for them. * General bit rot: Rowhammer, hard drive crashes, etc. * Proprietary patented intellectual property with "No user serviceable parts inside." * "This product contains a _ known to the State of California to cause cancer." * "The NSA" with all the undocumented back doors for the cops in everything, the USA crypto export regulations. * The FBI warnings on the movies, the Mounties in Canada and the State Troopers in the U.S., the copyrighted content, the child pornography, the firearms, the weed, and all sorts of other information deemed illegal for us to possess on our own computers. * The "hack job" in the mainstream media: we're all "hackers" if we don't use Microsoft® Windows® on an approved Intel® microprocessor as approved by the corporate boss. * The "evil maid" attack of some lady digging in a guy's computer with a private investigator or a subpoena for an anti-harassment civil suit or a restraining order or no-contact order or something like that. * The drug dealers and the hit men on the "dark web", the Bitcoin miners and the crypto currency mining bots. * The constant double-dealing between "full" KVM virtualization and Linux-kernel-only "paravirtualization" in the cloud. * The SWAT teams with their doorbuster warrants for anybody who runs a "server." * No IPv6 support anywhere under the sun. * ... -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On 5/14/20 8:52 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > Aisha Tammy wrote: > >> On 5/14/20 7:24 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: >>> Kyle Willett wrote: >>> I think OpenBSD advocacy could do more too. I read on an open source news site that Lenovo is going to start offering a Fedora Linux option on their Thinkpad lineup and already certifies some for Red Hat Enterprise Linux. I think it would be great if we could get some >>> >>> Who is "we"? >>> hardware manufacturer to certify OpenBSD on a device and offer it pre-installed as an OS choice. I think that would be a good thing for the project. Maybe an AMD64 x86_64 laptop is too much at first and maybe we should start with one of the arm or mips laptops supported >>> >>> Who is "we"? >>> well by OpenBSD. I don't know just a dream I have. >>> >>> Why go around telling people your dreams? Why not do all this yourself? >>> You don't need a mailing list for it. Is it your dream that others in the >>> group "we" will do what you dream? >>> >>> What you are doing here is advocating that other people do that which >>> you don't and won't do yourself. To be honest, it comes off small minded. >>> >> >> There are many possible assumptions of what they could have meant, I don't >> think there is a need to be overly harsh to their attitude. For all I know >> they might be an enthusiastic college student who wants to help. > > I suspect you are an enthusiastic person who wants to send a mail to us, > telling us what to do. > Sorry if it seemed like that. I am not telling anyone what to do. I am asking for suggestions on what I could do more. > But that which you dream of? You won't left a leg to do any of it. > >> Voicing your ideas and finding like minded people is a good motivator for >> doing a project. > > No, doing work is what makes projects. > > You are just typing words > >> @Kyle, I do appreciate your enthusiasm. >> That said, I do agree that going straight to hardware is far from what is >> possible as a short term goal. >> >> I think it is better by starting to do small things, > > I agree it is better to DO THINGS. > > But you are writing words. I do try to help in any small way that I can in ports@, though I am not too good at it yet. > >> I've already asked the newsletters to hopefully include the recent news >> about >> wireguard patches (even though it is not confirmed to be included yet, please >> don't kill me over this) and hopefully I get a positive response :) . > > The world is so full of writing about writing about doing stuff, but > short of people who actually do stuff. > > You are one of those writers, it appears... > >> I know this is not a lot but I am hoping slowly things can turn >> up for the better. >> >> As always, am open any other ideas you might have. >> >> (I tried to be terse, I think I failed) > > What a waste of time. > In that case, could you tell what was the idea behind creating an advocacy list, which on the site says: for promoting the use of OpenBSD ? Is this not what it is? I am also confused why so furious at me? I don't think I've done anything horrible?
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On 5/14/20 7:24 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > Kyle Willett wrote: > >> I think OpenBSD advocacy could do more too. I read on an open source >> news site that Lenovo is going to start offering a Fedora Linux option >> on their Thinkpad lineup and already certifies some for Red Hat >> Enterprise Linux. I think it would be great if we could get some > > Who is "we"? > >> hardware manufacturer to certify OpenBSD on a device and offer it >> pre-installed as an OS choice. I think that would be a good thing for >> the project. Maybe an AMD64 x86_64 laptop is too much at first and >> maybe we should start with one of the arm or mips laptops supported > > Who is "we"? > >> well by OpenBSD. I don't know just a dream I have. > > Why go around telling people your dreams? Why not do all this yourself? > You don't need a mailing list for it. Is it your dream that others in the > group "we" will do what you dream? > > What you are doing here is advocating that other people do that which > you don't and won't do yourself. To be honest, it comes off small minded. > There are many possible assumptions of what they could have meant, I don't think there is a need to be overly harsh to their attitude. For all I know they might be an enthusiastic college student who wants to help. Voicing your ideas and finding like minded people is a good motivator for doing a project. @Kyle, I do appreciate your enthusiasm. That said, I do agree that going straight to hardware is far from what is possible as a short term goal. I think it is better by starting to do small things, I've already asked the newsletters to hopefully include the recent news about wireguard patches (even though it is not confirmed to be included yet, please don't kill me over this) and hopefully I get a positive response :) . I know this is not a lot but I am hoping slowly things can turn up for the better. As always, am open any other ideas you might have. (I tried to be terse, I think I failed) Cheers and stay safe, Aisha
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
That's incredibly insightful!
You are precisely the true leader OpenBSD needs to compete in the
harsh corporate environment that gives us no respect!
Justina Colmena ~biz wrote:
>
>
>
> On May 14, 2020 5:24:38 PM AKDT, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> >
> >So you go find a mailing list noone in the industry reads,
> >and *cry* into it.
> >
> >never know, it might change the world. Or not.
> >
> "In the industry" again. Here we go again. I've been banlisted and
> blackballed out of all those "labor unions" since my youth. They had a "VICA"
> club at my high school many years ago, and I was not invited.
>
> >> I'm not trying to be religious here, but Martin Luther and others
> >have explained that we cannot make it to heaven or achieve success in
> >this life by works of the law.
> >
> >nor can you by crying about hardware injustice on a mailing list
> >read by noone
>
> Certain "working class" people aggressively claim all sorts of collective
> bargaining, work-related and employment rights and then they ride roughshod
> over basic human rights for everyone and everything else. It's the Mob. And
> then the bosses play right into their hands with delusions of "intellectual
> property," 100-year corporate copyrights, employee non-compete agreements and
> non-disclosure agreements, business-method patent portfolios, selectively
> enforced trademarks on common dictionary words, and government top secret
> classification for business trade secrets.
>
> Then the "free software" folks hired some of the same lawyers to come up with
> the "GPL," and there's an "established" Linux kernel to boot all that GNU
> software, and the Santa Cruz Operation ("SCO" out of the same vice district
> as Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, and Denver) hit them with poisoned code, cartel
> copyright allegations, and a magic solution, "Well, if you didn't release
> such reliable mission-critical code to the public, all would be well for the
> mil-spec employment market in Silicon Valley (San Francisco, California.)
>
> Noone? I don't know. In French they say «personne» unless they're lawyers, in
> which case they say «nulle personne» … they're workers. You can't fire them.
> They never quit. They're always "serving" you in court or at law with
> something or another you didn't order and you don't want.
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
OpenBSD should become a company selling hardware? That idea is complete bullshit. I have a better idea. How about the people who don't do anything except come up with stupid ideas go away. Kyle Willett wrote: > I did some research about OpenBSD in my graduate cyber security class > and came to the conclusion that more people should run OpenBSD on > company computers compared to Windows and even compared to the likes > of Linux and FreeBSD. That extra security is just so important. > Businesses are never going to buy Windows laptops and then switch them > to OpenBSD. They want a support contract and someone to call when > something does not work. The OpenBSD project has a small developer > base and always seems to be struggling for money. It is my thinking > that if the team in charge of OpenBSD development offered hardware > with OpenBSD supported 100% on it and sold with it preinstalled that > OpenBSD laptops could become a niche offering like Chromebooks but > fully open source. My apologies for upsetting Theo de Raadt himself > though. Just thinking about how the project could get more awareness > of OpenBSD out there and more people using the OS. Few hardware > companies bother with OpenBSD support because it has such a small > market share. Just sharing my ideas on how to get more people aware > of the project and using the OS as their daily driver.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
Hello, my name’s Derek, I subscribed to this email list last year when I was attempting to build a home OpenBSD router. It worked however I’ve got intermediate command line skills at best and I switched over to pfSense for the GUI in order to configure VLANs and OpenVPN client. I think an OpenBSD based router with a simplified GUI for easy setup of VPNs and VLANs paired with Unifi APs so more people can be empowered to setup secure and private home networks is a good thing. I recently started a blog https://netpraetor.com/ advocating for data privacy and data security. Protectlii hardware with coreboot and OpenBSD is a great combo! https://protectli.com/ Sent from my iPhone > On May 14, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > Justina Colmena ~biz wrote: > >> >> >> >>> On May 14, 2020 4:52:05 PM AKDT, Theo de Raadt wrote: >>> Aisha Tammy wrote: >>> ... >>> >>> I suspect you are an enthusiastic person who wants to send a mail to >>> us, >>> telling us what to do. >>> >>> But that which you dream of? You won't left a leg to do any of it. >>> >> Lift a leg? We simply cannot get our hands out of these proprietary computer >> hardware legal handcuffs anywhere in the U.S. or Canada to help out in any >> technical capacity. > > So you go find a mailing list noone in the industry reads, > and *cry* into it. > > never know, it might change the world. Or not. > >> I'm not trying to be religious here, but Martin Luther and others have >> explained that we cannot make it to heaven or achieve success in this life >> by works of the law. > > nor can you by crying about hardware injustice on a mailing list > read by noone >
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
Justina Colmena ~biz wrote: > > > > On May 14, 2020 4:52:05 PM AKDT, Theo de Raadt wrote: > >Aisha Tammy wrote: > > ... > > > >I suspect you are an enthusiastic person who wants to send a mail to > >us, > >telling us what to do. > > > >But that which you dream of? You won't left a leg to do any of it. > > > Lift a leg? We simply cannot get our hands out of these proprietary computer > hardware legal handcuffs anywhere in the U.S. or Canada to help out in any > technical capacity. So you go find a mailing list noone in the industry reads, and *cry* into it. never know, it might change the world. Or not. > I'm not trying to be religious here, but Martin Luther and others have > explained that we cannot make it to heaven or achieve success in this life by > works of the law. nor can you by crying about hardware injustice on a mailing list read by noone
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
Justina Colmena ~biz wrote: it must feel refreshing to rant about the things you find unfair and yet won't lift a finger to actually change, oh except finger after finger on a keyboard into a mailing list noone reads > "We" are suffering from many of the same hardware problems you are, when you > can't get documentation from the manufacturers of hardware devices, __without > an NDA__, to write OpenBSD drivers for them. > > * General bit rot: Rowhammer, hard drive crashes, etc. > * Proprietary patented intellectual property with "No user serviceable parts > inside." > * "This product contains a _ known to the State of California to cause > cancer." > * "The NSA" with all the undocumented back doors for the cops in everything, > the USA crypto export regulations. > * The FBI warnings on the movies, the Mounties in Canada and the State > Troopers in the U.S., the copyrighted content, the child pornography, the > firearms, the weed, and all sorts of other information deemed illegal for us > to possess on our own computers. > * The "hack job" in the mainstream media: we're all "hackers" if we don't > use Microsoft® Windows® on an approved Intel® microprocessor as approved by > the corporate boss. > * The "evil maid" attack of some lady digging in a guy's computer with a > private investigator or a subpoena for an anti-harassment civil suit or a > restraining order or no-contact order or something like that. > * The drug dealers and the hit men on the "dark web", the Bitcoin miners and > the crypto currency mining bots. > * The constant double-dealing between "full" KVM virtualization and > Linux-kernel-only "paravirtualization" in the cloud. > * The SWAT teams with their doorbuster warrants for anybody who runs a > "server." > * No IPv6 support anywhere under the sun. > * ... > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
You've done nothing except believe that words are action. Aisha Tammy wrote: > On 5/14/20 8:52 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > Aisha Tammy wrote: > > > >> On 5/14/20 7:24 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > >>> Kyle Willett wrote: > >>> > I think OpenBSD advocacy could do more too. I read on an open source > news site that Lenovo is going to start offering a Fedora Linux option > on their Thinkpad lineup and already certifies some for Red Hat > Enterprise Linux. I think it would be great if we could get some > >>> > >>> Who is "we"? > >>> > hardware manufacturer to certify OpenBSD on a device and offer it > pre-installed as an OS choice. I think that would be a good thing for > the project. Maybe an AMD64 x86_64 laptop is too much at first and > maybe we should start with one of the arm or mips laptops supported > >>> > >>> Who is "we"? > >>> > well by OpenBSD. I don't know just a dream I have. > >>> > >>> Why go around telling people your dreams? Why not do all this yourself? > >>> You don't need a mailing list for it. Is it your dream that others in the > >>> group "we" will do what you dream? > >>> > >>> What you are doing here is advocating that other people do that which > >>> you don't and won't do yourself. To be honest, it comes off small minded. > >>> > >> > >> There are many possible assumptions of what they could have meant, I don't > >> think there is a need to be overly harsh to their attitude. For all I know > >> they might be an enthusiastic college student who wants to help. > > > > I suspect you are an enthusiastic person who wants to send a mail to us, > > telling us what to do. > > > Sorry if it seemed like that. > I am not telling anyone what to do. I am asking for suggestions on what I > could > do more. > > > But that which you dream of? You won't left a leg to do any of it. > > > >> Voicing your ideas and finding like minded people is a good motivator for > >> doing a project. > > > > No, doing work is what makes projects. > > > > You are just typing words > > > >> @Kyle, I do appreciate your enthusiasm. > >> That said, I do agree that going straight to hardware is far from what is > >> possible as a short term goal. > >> > >> I think it is better by starting to do small things, > > > > I agree it is better to DO THINGS. > > > > But you are writing words. > > I do try to help in any small way that I can in ports@, though > I am not too good at it yet. > > > > >> I've already asked the newsletters to hopefully include the recent news > >> about > >> wireguard patches (even though it is not confirmed to be included yet, > >> please > >> don't kill me over this) and hopefully I get a positive response :) . > > > > The world is so full of writing about writing about doing stuff, but > > short of people who actually do stuff. > > > > You are one of those writers, it appears... > > > >> I know this is not a lot but I am hoping slowly things can turn > >> up for the better. > >> > >> As always, am open any other ideas you might have. > >> > >> (I tried to be terse, I think I failed) > > > > What a waste of time. > > > > In that case, could you tell what was the idea behind creating an > advocacy list, which on the site says: for promoting the use of OpenBSD ? > > Is this not what it is? > > I am also confused why so furious at me? I don't think I've done > anything horrible?
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
Aisha Tammy wrote: > On 5/14/20 7:24 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > Kyle Willett wrote: > > > >> I think OpenBSD advocacy could do more too. I read on an open source > >> news site that Lenovo is going to start offering a Fedora Linux option > >> on their Thinkpad lineup and already certifies some for Red Hat > >> Enterprise Linux. I think it would be great if we could get some > > > > Who is "we"? > > > >> hardware manufacturer to certify OpenBSD on a device and offer it > >> pre-installed as an OS choice. I think that would be a good thing for > >> the project. Maybe an AMD64 x86_64 laptop is too much at first and > >> maybe we should start with one of the arm or mips laptops supported > > > > Who is "we"? > > > >> well by OpenBSD. I don't know just a dream I have. > > > > Why go around telling people your dreams? Why not do all this yourself? > > You don't need a mailing list for it. Is it your dream that others in the > > group "we" will do what you dream? > > > > What you are doing here is advocating that other people do that which > > you don't and won't do yourself. To be honest, it comes off small minded. > > > > There are many possible assumptions of what they could have meant, I don't > think there is a need to be overly harsh to their attitude. For all I know > they might be an enthusiastic college student who wants to help. I suspect you are an enthusiastic person who wants to send a mail to us, telling us what to do. But that which you dream of? You won't left a leg to do any of it. > Voicing your ideas and finding like minded people is a good motivator for > doing a project. No, doing work is what makes projects. You are just typing words. > @Kyle, I do appreciate your enthusiasm. > That said, I do agree that going straight to hardware is far from what is > possible as a short term goal. > > I think it is better by starting to do small things, I agree it is better to DO THINGS. But you are writing words. > I've already asked the newsletters to hopefully include the recent news about > wireguard patches (even though it is not confirmed to be included yet, please > don't kill me over this) and hopefully I get a positive response :) . The world is so full of writing about writing about doing stuff, but short of people who actually do stuff. You are one of those writers, it appears... > I know this is not a lot but I am hoping slowly things can turn > up for the better. > > As always, am open any other ideas you might have. > > (I tried to be terse, I think I failed) What a waste of time.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
Kyle Willett wrote: > I think OpenBSD advocacy could do more too. I read on an open source > news site that Lenovo is going to start offering a Fedora Linux option > on their Thinkpad lineup and already certifies some for Red Hat > Enterprise Linux. I think it would be great if we could get some Who is "we"? > hardware manufacturer to certify OpenBSD on a device and offer it > pre-installed as an OS choice. I think that would be a good thing for > the project. Maybe an AMD64 x86_64 laptop is too much at first and > maybe we should start with one of the arm or mips laptops supported Who is "we"? > well by OpenBSD. I don't know just a dream I have. Why go around telling people your dreams? Why not do all this yourself? You don't need a mailing list for it. Is it your dream that others in the group "we" will do what you dream? What you are doing here is advocating that other people do that which you don't and won't do yourself. To be honest, it comes off small minded.
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
I think OpenBSD advocacy could do more too. I read on an open source news site that Lenovo is going to start offering a Fedora Linux option on their Thinkpad lineup and already certifies some for Red Hat Enterprise Linux. I think it would be great if we could get some hardware manufacturer to certify OpenBSD on a device and offer it pre-installed as an OS choice. I think that would be a good thing for the project. Maybe an AMD64 x86_64 laptop is too much at first and maybe we should start with one of the arm or mips laptops supported well by OpenBSD. I don't know just a dream I have. Kyle
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
On 5/14/20 11:03 AM, Austin Hook wrote: > > Bravo, Aisha, > > I myself was wondering why "advocacy" no longer shows up on the lists of > OpenBSD mailing lists. It was a nice place to discuss ideas that are not > just confined to technical software matters. I see that is still works > however. Next thing is to ask the devs if they would consider putting it > back. > Thanks a lot. Oh, I didn't know that it was removed. It would be really nice to have this up there again. I am going to start making a small website for interesting ports that could be done by new comers who want to help and start sending the things I find around the web about OpenBSD to some interesting news letters and undeadly, and also start contributing to undeadly.org (though that latter may take a while longer due to my busy schedule). Sending the undeadly articles to others through emails (I am using their rss at the moment) should be pretty easy. The current newsletters (that I follow) which I think are pretty popular and how I get a lot of the information about ongoings (outside of reddit :P) (1) cron.weekly: https://ma.ttias.be/cronweekly/ (2) linux journal: https://www.linuxjournal.com/ (3) linux foundation: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/ (4) nix craft: https://www.cyberciti.biz/ Am open to other ideas. Aisha > Austin > > > On Thu, 14 May 2020, Aisha Tammy wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I was wondering why this list is a bit dead (?!) and hoping to gain >> some ideas for maybe reviving it. >> >> I totally understand that most people at openbsd are devs and would >> like to focus more on coding than advocacy so I was wondering if people >> like me who are not that techy (mostly small ports) can help with >> this part. >> >> I am open to constructive criticism, so please forgive me if I seem >> out of touch. I have been subscribed for close to a month and didn't >> notice a lot of things happening around here :( so I was hoping >> to spice things up a tiny bit. >> >> Most of the ways in which I have tried previously is my creating >> whole bunch of small openbsd github projects and sharing them on reddit >> and twitter. But like this is barely scratching the surface of social >> media. I feel like there is a lot more that could be done :) >> >> Some of the basic things which I feel like are low hanging fruits >> >> (1) Showcasing tutorials on setting up small projects. >> >> One of the things that people get a good feeling from (me included) >> is when we manage to get some service running, no matter how small >> or insignificant it is. Like getting my znc setup, I was riding on >> that high for like 2 weeks (I know this sounds a bit dumb cuz I am >> a noob, but it was pretty nice to feel like I accomplished something). >> >> So it might be nice to show how to set up small services. >> I mean things like setting up a blog (using worpress or similar), >> or a wiki, or a hugo/jekyll website. >> >> There are a lot of really nice blog posts by a lot of cool people >> which show work arounds (for quirks) for these things in OpenBSD. >> >> It might be nice to have some kind of highlights page at openbsd >> which shows these nice links. (I know undeadly.org exists but is >> not pointed to by openbsd.org, would be nice if that could be done >> if nothng else is possible) >> >> I feel like while OpenBSD has really awesome benefits, the communication >> of these with the community could do with some work. >> >> (2) Having a bit more of a social presence >> >> Doesn't need to be facebook/twitter. I know undeadly.org has some really nice >> articles with highlight for nice things happening in the tech/ports lists >> but unfortunately undeadly is not that well known >> >> While I am by no means a social media expert I still feel the lack of >> presence of OpenBSD in general media articles and published stories. >> >> I am open to some idea about how to try and increase this part. >> Some ways I can think of: >> A) Getting in contact with news letter publishers and letting them >> know of nice developments that have happened. I don't think that >> linux news letters would be averse to having openbsd information >> sent on them. >> I am sure a lot of them would love if we send them information >> and do some of the work of finding articles for them, which ties >> into my previous part of having a highlights page >> B) Having an official blog >> I feel like this is a pretty important thing, especially in nowadays, >> where most things are spread online. Having an official blog will make >> things very easy for a lot of people to get interested. I am sure that >> there are quite a lot of people willing to chip in for this part if it >> was announced that there is going to be such an endeavor. >> C) (A controversial point) Trying to make things look a bit more >> stylistic (please don't kill me T.T ) >> While I agree that clarity is the most
Re: Improvements and thoughts on small projects for advocacy
Bravo, Aisha, I myself was wondering why "advocacy" no longer shows up on the lists of OpenBSD mailing lists. It was a nice place to discuss ideas that are not just confined to technical software matters. I see that is still works however. Next thing is to ask the devs if they would consider putting it back. Austin On Thu, 14 May 2020, Aisha Tammy wrote: > Hi all, > I was wondering why this list is a bit dead (?!) and hoping to gain > some ideas for maybe reviving it. > > I totally understand that most people at openbsd are devs and would > like to focus more on coding than advocacy so I was wondering if people > like me who are not that techy (mostly small ports) can help with > this part. > > I am open to constructive criticism, so please forgive me if I seem > out of touch. I have been subscribed for close to a month and didn't > notice a lot of things happening around here :( so I was hoping > to spice things up a tiny bit. > > Most of the ways in which I have tried previously is my creating > whole bunch of small openbsd github projects and sharing them on reddit > and twitter. But like this is barely scratching the surface of social > media. I feel like there is a lot more that could be done :) > > Some of the basic things which I feel like are low hanging fruits > > (1) Showcasing tutorials on setting up small projects. > > One of the things that people get a good feeling from (me included) > is when we manage to get some service running, no matter how small > or insignificant it is. Like getting my znc setup, I was riding on > that high for like 2 weeks (I know this sounds a bit dumb cuz I am > a noob, but it was pretty nice to feel like I accomplished something). > > So it might be nice to show how to set up small services. > I mean things like setting up a blog (using worpress or similar), > or a wiki, or a hugo/jekyll website. > > There are a lot of really nice blog posts by a lot of cool people > which show work arounds (for quirks) for these things in OpenBSD. > > It might be nice to have some kind of highlights page at openbsd > which shows these nice links. (I know undeadly.org exists but is > not pointed to by openbsd.org, would be nice if that could be done > if nothng else is possible) > > I feel like while OpenBSD has really awesome benefits, the communication > of these with the community could do with some work. > > (2) Having a bit more of a social presence > > Doesn't need to be facebook/twitter. I know undeadly.org has some really nice > articles with highlight for nice things happening in the tech/ports lists > but unfortunately undeadly is not that well known > > While I am by no means a social media expert I still feel the lack of > presence of OpenBSD in general media articles and published stories. > > I am open to some idea about how to try and increase this part. > Some ways I can think of: > A) Getting in contact with news letter publishers and letting them > know of nice developments that have happened. I don't think that > linux news letters would be averse to having openbsd information > sent on them. > I am sure a lot of them would love if we send them information > and do some of the work of finding articles for them, which ties > into my previous part of having a highlights page > B) Having an official blog > I feel like this is a pretty important thing, especially in nowadays, > where most things are spread online. Having an official blog will make > things very easy for a lot of people to get interested. I am sure that > there are quite a lot of people willing to chip in for this part if it > was announced that there is going to be such an endeavor. > C) (A controversial point) Trying to make things look a bit more > stylistic (please don't kill me T.T ) > While I agree that clarity is the most important part a small amount > of color in the official documentation is not the worst thing in > the world. I am open to this part being thrown out. > > (3) Showcasing a page for people to get involved in various parts of > the project > > Currently the pipeline to get involved seems like > try out obsd -> find something you find is not working or you don't like -> > find person working on it -> contact them -> bug report/patch to change > (have I missed something?) > This seems to be a tried and true pipeline which has worked so far. > It might also be good to have a page of open quests/projects in openbsd > where new people can contribute without having to delve too deep into > system code. This was inspired by my recent forays into string algorithms > on OpenBSD (nothing wrong with them, just that I was looking around and > trying to see what could be changed/improved). > > Having devs post TODOs and help needed/appreciated into a web page allows for > interested parties to get a better look at ongoing projects. > > Currently I
