RE: [digitalradio] Humans tolerate robots!
The flaw in your rhetoric, Jaak, is that Winlink PMBOs are QRMing existing QSOs whether or not an emergency is in progress. No one has a problem with this during an emergency -- but most of the time (thank goodness!) there is no emergency, and we're being QRM'd for no rational reason. There is nothing wrong with unattended stations, message passing, or using Pactor III -- but there is a plenty wrong with failing to verify that the frequency is locally clear before transmitting during non-emergency conditions. 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jaak Hohensee Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:40 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Humans tolerate robots! Dear Rodney You are wrong. You know laws/regulations, but ham-robots dont. Ham-robots have strong mantra - emergency. And strong mission - helping people. What you and other ham-humans have against this rhetoric? Ham-humans need better rhetoric against ham-robots. Like this: Mantra for ham-humans: Ham bands robotfree! Robots act in ham-bands like communication terrorists. Ham-humans mission: To developing human communication skills for any case, not only for emergency. For emergency better widely used QRP-readiness. 73, Jaak ES1HJ/QRP Rodney wrote: Tolerant of what? Intentional interference? Don't think so! Tolerant of blatant breaking of laws and regulations? NOT! Jaak Hohensee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Demetre SV1UY wrote: ...This is supposed to be a free world but in a free world we should always be a bit more tolerant, don't you think? 73 de Demetre SV1UY New era beginning... HNY 2008 from DigiQRP community. -- Jaak Hohensee ES1HJ/QRP -- . -- Jaak Hohensee ES1HJ/QRP
Re: [digitalradio] PSKmail
Technically not a big deal indeed. But we are still talking about a few months of spare time :) I will think about it. It might even bring some new life to the packet network. Where I live it is a dying sport. Traffic on our local node (PI1EHV) has gone down to some 10% of what it was... 73, Rein PA0R That is what I would like to do - use pskmail as an internet gateway for an AX25 network on VHF with a TNC like my KAM+. Do I understand that this might not be a big deal? If you also wanted to add the afsk modem, perhaps it might be helpful to examine the source code (in C) for Thomas Sailer's soundmodem at http://www.baycom.org/~tom/ham/soundmodem/ ... 73, Howard K5HB -- http://pa0r.blogspirit.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php View the DRCC numbers database at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/database Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: PSKmail
I will think about it. It would be nice to have the pskmail functionality in a re-usable form. The actual code is not easy to run in windows, i did try and failed. The actual file-io message transfer system has the advantage to be universally usable. It's not linked to a specific psk31 soft, and its not even liked to psk31. That's an ideal situation for experiments. The code is complicated enough to need deep involvement to understand. It's not possible to quick-hack it into C. We need the help of the author !
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Standard sideband for digi modes?
The only time you would need specific tones as Demetre mentions below, is if you have filters that are preset for those tones. This is the way it used to be in the past with one filter tuned for the mark frequency and the other for the shift frequency offset. Mostly that was standardized with a 170 Hz shift in later years. Early equipment had 850 Hz and commercial equipment often used 425 Hz. So having different filter combinations from the standard ones was not practical since they were tuned and fixed as best you could get them and each discrete filter was relatively expensive. In the late 1970's the integrated circuit made it much easier to build filters that were easily adjustable with a potentiometer instead of adding and subtracting capacitors from an array of 88 mH and /or 44 mH toroids (remember those!). One of my early homebrew TU's used the XR-2206 tone generator and XR-2211 tone decoder. Not as good as the older equipment, but incredibly compact, inexpensive, low voltages, etc. Until packet radio wiped out VHF RTTY in our area, I used that TU with a Model 15 teleprinter for local contacts through our RTTY regenerative repeater. Today the filter is often in the software program you are running on your computer and it no longer matters what the tones are. You move the cursor along the waterfall to place your signal or to decode the signal and the mark tone may be 500 Hz, 1214 Hz, 2001Hz, but it could even be 2125 Hz if you so choose and want to tune the rig so that the tone is at that point. But it is not necessary to do this as long as the relationship (the shift) remains proper at 170 Hz for most cases, and with the mark tone high, as it relates to FSK. With AFSK and using a different sideband things are a bit reversed, but as I mentioned earlier, the programmers have mostly standardized on leaving the rig on USB if using AFSK and they make the tones work correctly as if you were actually transmitting FSK with mark high. 73, Rick, KV9U Demetre SV1UY wrote: For RTTY whoever uses the American Tones (Mark 2125Hz - Space 2295Hz) always uses LSB, whereus if you used the European Tones (Space 1275Hz - Mark 1445Hz) you have to use USB so that the 2 systems are compatible to each other. All my old homemade terminal units were using the European Tones so I always used USB. I always favoured the European Tones because they were chosen more wisely to be in the center of the passband of the crystal filter of the old transceivers that only had an SSB crystal filter and also because I liked to listen to the sound around 1360 Hz (the center of the European Tones) while tuning and and afterwards during the QSO. It is a more natural sound to me. Whenever I heard the higher tones that the american terminal units used, I always ended up with a headache. Of course f you did not follow this norm, you could always switch your tones the other way around with the REVERSE SWITCH that all terminals used to have incase someone was not using the correct combination. Is you notice at the tones I described in the first paragraph, the Americans tones are Mark-Space where the Europeans always are Space-Mark. Now with the soundcard programs usually they tell you to use 1500 HZ as a center frequency and use USB. Of course if everybody follows this protocol there is no problem. Some soundcard programs have a SOFTWARE REVERSE SWITCH so that you can change it in case there is any incompatibility in the tone pairs. 73 de Demetre SV1UY
[digitalradio] CQ PACTOR on 14.07750 now
Hi Nick and all, Happy New Year. I am calling CQ on PACTOR right now and I will continue until 16.00 UTC. Anyone from USA interested please reply on PACTOR 1 or 2. 73 de Demetre SV1UY
[digitalradio] Re: PSKmail
It would be nice to have the pskmail functionality in a re-usable form. The code is complicated enough to need deep involvement to understand. It's not possible to quick-hack it into C. We need the help of the author ! There is a C implementation of flARQ. It uses gtk UI toolkit and there is a port of gtk to Windows. I already tried to compile it on Windows and connect it to PocketDigi, but there is some work needed, as threading and communication between flARQ and flDigi are not directly portable to Windows. AFAIK pskmail slightly extends protocol, that flARQ implements. 73, Vojtech OK1IAK
[digitalradio] Re: CQ PACTOR on 14.07750 now
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Demetre SV1UY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Nick and all, Happy New Year. I am calling CQ on PACTOR right now and I will continue until 16.00 UTC. Anyone from USA interested please reply on PACTOR 1 or 2. 73 de Demetre SV1UY Hi Demetre, Happy New Year to you. Many thanks for your contribution. I am listening on the frequency right now, but have no propogation to the East. I am only hearing Olivia coming out of the US. Maybe some other time. Eric 9Z4CP. EMCOMMS Manager The Trinidad and Tobago Amateur Radio Society Inc.
Re: [digitalradio] CQ PACTOR on 14.07750 now
Hi Demetre, Listening but nothing heard yet. Numerous signals abound the frequency but will be monitoring. Howard W6IDS Richmond, IN - Original Message - From: Demetre SV1UY [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 10:09 AM Subject: [digitalradio] CQ PACTOR on 14.07750 now Hi Nick and all, Happy New Year. I am calling CQ on PACTOR right now and I will continue until 16.00 UTC. Anyone from USA interested please reply on PACTOR 1 or 2.
[digitalradio] Happy New Year: Annual review of message rule
As we enter our 9th year, I want to thank all of you for for establishing this group as the world's leading discussion group for amateur radio digital modes. Here are is the annual re-posting of the rules... Digitalradio Message Posting Rules: Messages that promote commercial products are NOT allowed, with the exception of products directly associated with Amateur Radio or Short Wave Listening. Messages should be related to amateur radio, shortwave listening, and especially digital communication. Occasional posting of items that are not directly related may be allowed but please contact the moderator first. Messages may be posted in any language. Messages cannot promote activities that are considered illegal by Yahoo, or encourage copyright violation. Member Behaviour: This group is uncensored. Members are free to engage in the posting of information, solicit answers to questions, and engage in lively discussion. Expressions of diverse opinions are encouraged. However, expressions of opinion should be non-judgmental and devoid of personal insult. For example : You can say I really disagree, and I think your view is totally wrong but should not say You are a jerk, and obviously have the I.Q of a mole. Racist remarks, or remarks intolerant of the diverse cultures found within the amateur radio community, are not allowed. The expression of fraternal greetings associated with varying holidays celebrated around the world are ARE allowed The use of swear words is discouraged. Please try to avoid endless debate of a topic. Make your opinions known by all means, respond to counterpoints a couple of times too, if you want. However, after a while, debates often turn in to endless circular arguments. When this happens the moderators will occasionally end the debate by giving a 72 hour notice. This means after 72 hours notice, posting on the topic should end. Occasionally, a cooling off period is enacted whereby the list is placed on fully moderated status to allow the debate to cool of. In 2006 for example, this happened three times. Sanctions: No member will be removed or banned simply because they expressed an idea. Only one member has ever been banned. Two suspended. If you post or reply to a message that is considered clearly inappropriate, you will receive a friendly message from the Moderator. If you continue to send inappropriate messages you will receive an official warning. If the offensive posting continues your ability to post messages will be suspended for 30 days. Repeat of such actions will result in a one year ban from this group. The posting of pornographic messages or pictures (to Files section) will result in an immediate ban/ Andy K3UK Digitalradio Owner/Moderator
[digitalradio] CQ PACTOR
Calling CQ PACTOR on 7.038 KHZ (center frequency). Just finished a 20 minutes QSO in PACTOR II with OZ1PMX. Despite the QRM and zero signals the link kept going right through the end. 73 de Demetre SV1UY
[digitalradio] PACTOR QSO
Hi Ned/EI5DS, Thanks for the PACTOR QSOs today. Even with S0 signals we managed the QSO thanks to PACTOR! Hope to see you tomorrow sometime. I will post to Andy's SKED PAGE and here first and hopefully we can have some more QSOs on 20m. HAPPY NEW YEAR to you and all. 73 de Demetre SV1UY
[digitalradio] Re: Standard sideband for digi modes?
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today the filter is often in the software program you are running on your computer and it no longer matters what the tones are. You move the cursor along the waterfall to place your signal or to decode the signal and the mark tone may be 500 Hz, 1214 Hz, 2001Hz, but it could even be 2125 Hz if you so choose and want to tune the rig so that the tone is at that point. But it is not necessary to do this as long as the relationship (the shift) remains proper at 170 Hz for most cases, and with the mark tone high, as it relates to FSK. With AFSK and using a different sideband things are a bit reversed, but as I mentioned earlier, the programmers have mostly standardized on leaving the rig on USB if using AFSK and they make the tones work correctly as if you were actually transmitting FSK with mark high. 73, Rick, KV9U Sure Rick, But people should know what happened in the past, otherwise they use a soundcard mode today with their 2.4 KHZ SSB filter and they expect all the filtering to be done from the soundcard, which is impossible due to the AGC effect. Some even use the 2.4 KHZ filter to copy 20 PSK31 stations and then they complain about adjacent interference!!! Really if one wants to have a decent QSO he/she must use a marrow filter and of course must know a bit of history and how to use such a narrow filter. I think the worst thing that ever happened to digital programs was the ability to move your cursor along the waterfall and think that anyone else with a stronger signal is QRMing your QSO!!! Maybe because nobody has ever bothered to tell the newer hams how did RTTY used to be in the past. And don't forget that really it does not matter if you use USB or LSB and you can always flick the REVERSE SWITCH. This is true for all narrow digital modes with the exception of QPSK31. In spread spectrum modes only, it is important for everybody to use the same sideband, i.e. for PACTOR 3 everybody uses USB. I believe the same is true for the rest of the wide modes. 73 de Demetre SV1UY
[digitalradio] Re: Standard sideband for digi modes?
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Demetre SV1UY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] And don't forget that really it does not matter if you use USB or LSB and you can always flick the REVERSE SWITCH. This is true for all narrow digital modes with the exception of QPSK31. [snip] 73 de Demetre SV1UY I forgot to mention that the REVERSE SWITCH is only present in RTTY, the other narrow modes (except QPSK31) do not care what sideband you are on. 73 de Demetre SV1UY
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Standard sideband for digi modes?
And MFSK, Olivia, and Domino EX. They are (or can be) =500Hz. Leigh/WA5ZNU and you can always flick the REVERSE SWITCH. This is true for all narrow digital modes with the exception of QPSK31. [snip] 73 de Demetre SV1UY I forgot to mention that the REVERSE SWITCH is only present in RTTY, the other narrow modes (except QPSK31) do not care what sideband you are on. 73 de Demetre SV1UY
[digitalradio] Dead HF Packet Group??
I wonder if anyone here knows who runs this group? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hf_packet_radio/ Seems like its a morgue :-) I applied 10 days ago.nothing. While I am at ithow many active on HF Packet here? Have a great New Year! 73s Jack VK4JRC
[digitalradio] Re: Standard sideband for digi modes?
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Leigh L Klotz, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And MFSK, Olivia, and Domino EX. They are (or can be) =500Hz. Leigh/WA5ZNU Thanks for letting us know Leigh. Never worked these modes OM. 73 de Demetre SV1UY
Re: [digitalradio] Dead HF Packet Group??
That group has had just three posts in 2007 and none since July, I think it is pushing up daisies. Andy On Jan 1, 2008 4:39 PM, vk4jrc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder if anyone here knows who runs this group? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hf_packet_radio/ Seems like its a morgue :-) I applied 10 days ago.nothing. While I am at ithow many active on HF Packet here? Have a great New Year! 73s Jack VK4JRC -- Andy K3UK www.obriensweb.com (QSL via N2RJ)
Re: [digitalradio] Dead HF Packet Group??
Hi Jack, I too am waiting on membership . Meanwhile running PSK31 and MT63 and Vhf Packet 73 Ken PacketRadio is Still Alive...Mississippi...145.010...Simplex...1200 Baud - Original Message From: vk4jrc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2008 3:39:50 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Dead HF Packet Group?? I wonder if anyone here knows who runs this group? http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/hf_ packet_radio/ Seems like its a morgue :-) I applied 10 days ago.nothing. While I am at ithow many active on HF Packet here? Have a great New Year! 73s Jack VK4JRC Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [digitalradio] PSKmail
I have downloaded pskmail_pup_w-0.5.5.zip It has installed ok and runs ok on Win. It has FLDIGI and FLARQ pre-installed. FLDIGI runs ok, but I cannot at this stage get PTT working I aparently cannot nominate the correct com port. The com port, in Windows, is com 3 (a PCI Com Card). I will eventually sort this out, the main problem is that I cannot find any sign of pskmail. Was pskmail actually included in this distro, if so where can I find it. Kevin VK5OA Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php View the DRCC numbers database at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/database Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Humans tolerate robots!
Dave! You wrote, that there is nothing wrong with transmitting robots in ham-bands - only verification of frequency. IMO there are minimum 2 more general questions. 1. Ethics. Robot ethics. So the primary question is not verificational. Does the transmitting robot must respect/tolerate operators or vice versa? Isaac Asimov formulated some basic principles years ago. Now South-Korea want to release The Robot Ethics Charter. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6425927.stm 2. If the ham community accept robots in ham bands, then in nearest future we see programs with artificial intelligence, that make 24h QSOs from starting to QSLing. What you expect from QSO? Robot or operator? Better to discuss this topic before. HNY 2008, Jaak ES1HJ/QRP Dave AA6YQ wrote: The flaw in your rhetoric, Jaak, is that Winlink PMBOs are QRMing existing QSOs whether or not an emergency is in progress. No one has a problem with this during an emergency -- but most of the time (thank goodness!) there is no emergency, and we're being QRM'd for no rational reason. _There is nothing wrong with unattended stations, message passing, or using Pactor III -- but there is a plenty wrong with failing to verify that the frequency is locally clear before transmitting during non-emergency conditions._ 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- *From:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of *Jaak Hohensee *Sent:* Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:40 AM *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [digitalradio] Humans tolerate robots! Dear Rodney You are wrong. You know laws/regulations, but ham-robots dont. Ham-robots have strong mantra - emergency. And strong mission - helping people. What you and other ham-humans have against this rhetoric? Ham-humans need better rhetoric against ham-robots. Like this: Mantra for ham-humans: Ham bands robotfree! Robots act in ham-bands like communication terrorists. Ham-humans mission: To developing human communication skills for any case, not only for emergency. For emergency better widely used QRP-readiness. 73, Jaak ES1HJ/QRP Rodney wrote: Tolerant of what? Intentional interference? Don't think so! Tolerant of blatant breaking of laws and regulations? NOT! */Jaak Hohensee [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Demetre SV1UY wrote: ...This is supposed to be a free world but in a free world _we should always be a bit more tolerant_, don't you think? 73 de Demetre SV1UY mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] New era beginning... HNY 2008 from DigiQRP community. -- Jaak Hohensee ES1HJ/QRP . -- Jaak Hohensee ES1HJ/QRP -- Kirjutas ja tervitab Jaak Hohensee gsm +37256 560172
Re: [digitalradio] Humans tolerate robots!
LAWS OF RADIO ROBOTICS
A robot operator may not QRM a human operator or, through
inaction, allow a human operator to be QRMed.
A robot operator must obey orders given it by human operators especially
orders to stop transmitting until the frequency is clear.
A robot operator must handle its own messages as long as such operation does
not conflict with the First or Second Law.
73,
Howard K5HB
- Original Message
From: Jaak Hohensee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2008 1:44:44 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Humans tolerate robots!
Dave! You wrote, that there is nothing wrong with transmitting robots
in ham-bands - only verification of frequency.
IMO there are minimum 2 more general questions.
1. Ethics. Robot ethics. So the primary question is not verificational.
Does the transmitting robot must respect/tolerate operators or vice
versa?
Isaac Asimov formulated some basic principles years ago. Now
South-Korea want to release The Robot Ethics Charter.
http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 2/hi/technology/ 6425927.stm
2. If the ham community accept robots in ham bands, then in nearest
future we see programs with artificial intelligence, that make 24h QSOs
from starting to QSLing.
What you expect from QSO? Robot or operator?
Better to discuss this topic before.
HNY 2008, Jaak
ES1HJ/QRP
Dave AA6YQ wrote:
The flaw in your rhetoric, Jaak, is that Winlink
PMBOs are QRMing existing QSOs whether or not an emergency is in
progress. No one has a problem with this during an emergency -- but
most of the time (thank goodness!) there is no emergency, and we're
being QRM'd for no rational reason. There is nothing wrong with
unattended stations, message passing, or using Pactor III -- but there
is a plenty wrong with failing to verify that the frequency is locally
clear before transmitting during non-emergency conditions.
73,
Dave, AA6YQ
-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:digitalradi [EMAIL PROTECTED] com]On Behalf Of Jaak
Hohensee
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:40 AM
To: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Humans tolerate robots!
Dear Rodney
You are wrong. You know laws/regulations, but ham-robots dont.
Ham-robots have strong mantra - emergency. And strong mission - helping
people.
What you and other ham-humans have against this rhetoric?
Ham-humans need better rhetoric against ham-robots. Like this:
Mantra for ham-humans: Ham bands robotfree! Robots act in ham-bands
like communication terrorists.
Ham-humans mission: To developing human communication skills for any
case, not only for emergency. For emergency better widely used
QRP-readiness.
73, Jaak
ES1HJ/QRP
Rodney wrote:
Tolerant of what? Intentional interference? Don't think so!
Tolerant of blatant breaking of laws and regulations? NOT!
Jaak Hohensee [EMAIL PROTECTED] net wrote:
Demetre SV1UY wrote:
...This is supposed to be a free world but in a free world
we should always be a bit more tolerant, don't you think?
73 de Demetre SV1UY
New era beginning...
HNY 2008 from DigiQRP community.
--
Jaak Hohensee
ES1HJ/QRP
.
--
Jaak Hohensee
ES1HJ/QRP
--
Kirjutas ja tervitab
Jaak Hohensee
gsm +37256 560172
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RE: [digitalradio] Humans tolerate robots!
Since we're excluding emergency conditions, it would be hard to argue that any of Asimov's laws are applicable unless you have a very broad definition of come to harm. QRM from a PMBO unquestionably diminishes the enjoyment of those operators who've been QRMed, but have they truly come to harm? The regulations in our various countries that prohibit amateurs from willfully interfering with communication among other amateurs are more germaine; one would like to believe that such regulations would be unnecessary, but willingness -- glee, even -- of some operators to use PMBOs when they know QSOs will be QRMed as a result makes it clear that the spirit of amateur radio alone is not enough. Personally, I have no interest in QSOing a station entirely operated by a software application. However, such stations can provide useful services for those interested. 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jaak Hohensee Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 2:45 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Humans tolerate robots! Dave! You wrote, that there is nothing wrong with transmitting robots in ham-bands - only verification of frequency. IMO there are minimum 2 more general questions. 1. Ethics. Robot ethics. So the primary question is not verificational. Does the transmitting robot must respect/tolerate operators or vice versa? Isaac Asimov formulated some basic principles years ago. Now South-Korea want to release The Robot Ethics Charter. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6425927.stm 2. If the ham community accept robots in ham bands, then in nearest future we see programs with artificial intelligence, that make 24h QSOs from starting to QSLing. What you expect from QSO? Robot or operator? Better to discuss this topic before. HNY 2008, Jaak ES1HJ/QRP Dave AA6YQ wrote: The flaw in your rhetoric, Jaak, is that Winlink PMBOs are QRMing existing QSOs whether or not an emergency is in progress. No one has a problem with this during an emergency -- but most of the time (thank goodness!) there is no emergency, and we're being QRM'd for no rational reason. There is nothing wrong with unattended stations, message passing, or using Pactor III -- but there is a plenty wrong with failing to verify that the frequency is locally clear before transmitting during non-emergency conditions. 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jaak Hohensee Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:40 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Humans tolerate robots! Dear Rodney You are wrong. You know laws/regulations, but ham-robots dont. Ham-robots have strong mantra - emergency. And strong mission - helping people. What you and other ham-humans have against this rhetoric? Ham-humans need better rhetoric against ham-robots. Like this: Mantra for ham-humans: Ham bands robotfree! Robots act in ham-bands like communication terrorists. Ham-humans mission: To developing human communication skills for any case, not only for emergency. For emergency better widely used QRP-readiness. 73, Jaak ES1HJ/QRP Rodney wrote: Tolerant of what? Intentional interference? Don't think so! Tolerant of blatant breaking of laws and regulations? NOT! Jaak Hohensee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Demetre SV1UY wrote: ...This is supposed to be a free world but in a free world we should always be a bit more tolerant, don't you think? 73 de Demetre SV1UY New era beginning... HNY 2008 from DigiQRP community. -- Jaak Hohensee ES1HJ/QRP . -- Jaak Hohensee ES1HJ/QRP -- Kirjutas ja tervitab Jaak Hohensee gsm +37256 560172
Re: [digitalradio] Humans tolerate robots!
Howard Brown wrote: LAWS OF RADIO ROBOTICS A robot operator may not QRM a human operator or, through inaction, allow a human operator to be QRMed. A robot operator must obey orders given it by human operators especially orders to stop transmitting until the frequency is clear. A robot operator must handle its own messages as long as such operation does not conflict with the First or Second Law. 73, Howard K5HB ROTFL! So true. de Roger W6VZV
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Is PACTOR I Actually DEAD For KBD - KBD?
At 01:20 PM 12/31/2007, you wrote: I might be wrong but I think that MixW can parse Pactor1 FEC. de Roger W6VZV Why even try? You have stated a number of times pactor is dead !
[digitalradio] NBEMS available for beta testing
The NBEMS development team is pleased to announce the availability of a Windows NBEMS software suite for beta testing. The NarrowBand Emergency Messaging System (NBEMS) for Windows is a suite of software programs designed for point-to-point, fast, error-free, emergency messaging up to or over 100 miles distant, and takes up a very minimum of space on the ham bands, leaving more space for all other ham activites. The system is designed primarily for use on the two-meter band, or on HF with NVIS antennas, where there is a minimum of fading (QSB) to slow down message transfers. Two meters has the advantage that distances long enough to span disaster areas of up to 100 miles can be dependably covered with small, portable antennas. In hilly regions, if two meters is not workable over the distances required, NVIS antennas on HF can be employed instead, but are not nearly as portable. The system uses the computer soundcard as the modem and, other than a simple interface connection between the computer and transceiver, no additional hardware is needed. Composing and sending emergency messages on NBEMS utilizes the same Outlook Express, Outlook, or Windows Mail, email program used for Internet email, and is no more difficult than sending an email over the Internet. Messages just go over the radio instead, when the Internet, phone service, or repeater system is not locally reachable in an emergency. PSK63, PSK125, or PSK250 is used to modulate either two-meter SSB, or HF SSB transmitters, using horizontally polarized antennas for greatest range. Two meters is unique in that the propagation is more constant than on the lower bands from 6 meters on down, range is greater, and absorption less, than on the lowest UHF band, 70 cm, so much wider modes, that handle QSB by continuing to work far below the noise level, are not needed. This point-to-point system does not utilize repeaters, or email robots, for message forwarding. All forwarding is always done by stations manned by live operators on both ends, who can comfirm that a frequency is clear locally, negotiate a QSY if necessary to avoid causing interference, and confirm delivery of a message by the intended recipient. The system depends upon a multitude of radio amateurs providing the traditional public service function, similar to the way they always have, and gives more hams a chance to help out with emergency communications without requiring a large hardware investment. The software can also be used for daily casual communications on PSK31, PSK63, RTTY, or MFSK16 and is capable of sending flawless, high resolution, passport photo-sized color images, in less than 10 minutes over any path that can sustain PSK250 without excessive repeats. All the members on this digitalradio reflector are invited to participate in the beta test of the NBEMS. The NBEMS suite can be downloaded for beta testing from: http://w1hkj.com/NBEMS/ . Please give the system a try and send comments and bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Happy New Year to you all! The NBEMS Development Team Skip, KH6TY Dave, W1HKJ
[digitalradio] Comments on the JT65A and Olivia contests
Of the 15 or so logs received so far, the comments appear to be. The bands (40 and 20M) were in very poor conditions Both Olivia and JT65A contests were considered tough. Activity was , according to early reports, higher in the JT65A mode . Several JT65A WSJT users had difficulty handing a pile-up (There are some advanced features within WSJT where you can decode several signals at once, but perhaps people do not know this). Some folks mistook their local time for UTC time. Several ZL's, VKs, and JA's on the JT65A contest As for the comments that the contest was tough, that was expected. The experimental contests take a lot of patience. JT65A as implemented in WSJT is not at all designed for conventional contesting. Today's results are helpful for analyzing how contests with JT65A could be conducted in the future (if at all!). Olivia should have been easier, I did see 4 QSO's taking place in Olivia 500/8 at the same time on 40M, some die-hards stuck with 500/4 ! Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] Fwd: [HF-APRS] HF APRS
-- Forwarded message from K3UK's HF-APRS Reflector -- From: g0jxn.jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Apr 10, 2007 1:24 AM Subject: [HF-APRS] HF APRS Cc: HF-APRS Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Guys Now QRV 10.147.600/USB (10.147 for AGW) 29.250/FM (1200bd). 73 Jim, G0JXN
[digitalradio] Frequency accurracy tolerance tnc? main problem for HF-APRS shortwave ?
from K3UK's HF-APRS YahooGroup. -- Forwarded message -- From: oe3mzc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Dec 18, 2007 4:22 AM Subject: [HF-APRS] Frequency accurracy tolerance tnc? main problem for HF-APRS shortwave ? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] many tncs for 300baud FSk packet radio used for APRS on hf only decode within a very narrow frequency window of abt. +-30Hz. (KAM, MixW, AGWPE, PK232,SCS PTC-2,TNC-2 etc..) This is very difficult to adjust and represents the main reason for failure in decoding hf-aprs signals. To my knowledge there is only one hardware that could cope with frequency drift in a much better way: a DSP-TNC from SCS see: http://www.scs-ptc.com/datasheets/scs_datasheet_tracker_english.pdf This DSP modem can simultaneously decode multiple signals in a bandwith of up to plus/minus 400Hz around an adjustable center frequency, e.g. all signals with a 800Hz bandpass will be decoded. When connected in AX25 to two stations at same time, the tnc will even adjust its own transmitted qrgs according to the two partners and their individual offset automatically. The most helpful feature however is the frequency readout. the comand ESC %M enter will display a Mheard list with offset frequencies. This can be used to for tuning. example from 30m APRS channel in Europe: * %m * DIRECTLY RECEIVED HF-PR STATIONS: WIDE3 -15 Hz, DM5LW +25 Hz, OE3MZC-9 -25 Hz, OE3XMU -25 Hz DF5WXF-2 +25 Hz, F4CKT +25 Hz, F6KPH-4 +18 Hz, DF4FO -25 Hz DF4FO-3 -25 Hz, SR3NWY -25 Hz, DB0CHV +0 Hz, SL5ZL -25 Hz F5ZQC-4 +25 Hz, WIDE5 -25 Hz, G0JXN-10 -3 Hz, RA3IM -6 Hz F5LEB +0 Hz, TRACE3 +0 Hz, F6KCF-10 +0 Hz, TRACE2 +0 Hz EA6XQ -6 Hz, EA6XQ-5 +25 Hz, RELAY -6 Hz, UA1WCF -28 Hz HB9CGH-4 +0 Hz, UA1WCF-2 -25 Hz, WIDE7 +25 Hz, F5KCN-3 +25 Hz WIDE2 +0 Hz, G7EOB-7 +0 Hz, G0IQK-10 -25 Hz, MB7UJ +0 Hz * AA1XD -25 Hz, W1JMC -50 Hz *OZ4DX -43 Hz, W1ON -6 Hz, EA6AFM +0 Hz, OK2PEN -28 Hz, EC2A-1 +25 Hz, EB2EMZ-8 +25 Hz, 73 de Mike, OE3MZC
Re: [digitalradio] NBEMS available for beta testing
On Jan 1, 2008 9:23 PM, kh6ty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The NBEMS development team is pleased to announce the availability of a Windows NBEMS software suite for beta testing. The NarrowBand Emergency Messaging System (NBEMS) for Windows is a suite of software programs designed for point-to-point, fast, error-free, emergency messaging up to or over 100 miles distant, and takes up a very minimum of space on the ham bands, leaving more space for all other ham activites. The system is designed primarily for use on the two-meter band, or on HF with NVIS antennas, where there is a minimum of fading (QSB) to slow down message transfers. Two meters has the advantage that distances long enough to span disaster areas of up to 100 miles can be dependably covered with small, portable antennas. In hilly regions, if two meters is not workable over the distances required, NVIS antennas on HF can be employed instead, but are not nearly as portable. The system uses the computer soundcard as the modem and, other than a simple interface connection between the computer and transceiver, no additional hardware is needed. Composing and sending emergency messages on NBEMS utilizes the same Outlook Express, Outlook, or Windows Mail, email program used for Internet email, and is no more difficult than sending an email over the Internet. Messages just go over the radio instead, when the Internet, phone service, or repeater system is not locally reachable in an emergency. PSK63, PSK125, or PSK250 is used to modulate either two-meter SSB, or HF SSB transmitters, using horizontally polarized antennas for greatest range. Two meters is unique in that the propagation is more constant than on the lower bands from 6 meters on down, range is greater, and absorption less, than on the lowest UHF band, 70 cm, so much wider modes, that handle QSB by continuing to work far below the noise level, are not needed. This point-to-point system does not utilize repeaters, or email robots, for message forwarding. All forwarding is always done by stations manned by live operators on both ends, who can comfirm that a frequency is clear locally, negotiate a QSY if necessary to avoid causing interference, and confirm delivery of a message by the intended recipient. The system depends upon a multitude of radio amateurs providing the traditional public service function, similar to the way they always have, and gives more hams a chance to help out with emergency communications without requiring a large hardware investment. The software can also be used for daily casual communications on PSK31, PSK63, RTTY, or MFSK16 and is capable of sending flawless, high resolution, passport photo-sized color images, in less than 10 minutes over any path that can sustain PSK250 without excessive repeats. All the members on this digitalradio reflector are invited to participate in the beta test of the NBEMS. The NBEMS suite can be downloaded for beta testing from: http://w1hkj.com/NBEMS/ . Please give the system a try and send comments and bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Happy New Year to you all! The NBEMS Development Team Skip, KH6TY Dave, W1HKJ -- Andy K3UK www.obriensweb.com (QSL via N2RJ) Grea
Re: [digitalradio] NBEMS available for beta testing
7072 (VFO) PSK63 FLARQ beacon every 60 seconds with VBdigi NBECS ANdy K3UK
RE: [digitalradio] NBEMS available for beta testing
Nice work, Skip! Congrats!!! 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of kh6ty Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 9:24 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] NBEMS available for beta testing The NBEMS development team is pleased to announce the availability of a Windows NBEMS software suite for beta testing. The NarrowBand Emergency Messaging System (NBEMS) for Windows is a suite of software programs designed for point-to-point, fast, error-free, emergency messaging up to or over 100 miles distant, and takes up a very minimum of space on the ham bands, leaving more space for all other ham activites. The system is designed primarily for use on the two-meter band, or on HF with NVIS antennas, where there is a minimum of fading (QSB) to slow down message transfers. Two meters has the advantage that distances long enough to span disaster areas of up to 100 miles can be dependably covered with small, portable antennas. In hilly regions, if two meters is not workable over the distances required, NVIS antennas on HF can be employed instead, but are not nearly as portable. The system uses the computer soundcard as the modem and, other than a simple interface connection between the computer and transceiver, no additional hardware is needed. Composing and sending emergency messages on NBEMS utilizes the same Outlook Express, Outlook, or Windows Mail, email program used for Internet email, and is no more difficult than sending an email over the Internet. Messages just go over the radio instead, when the Internet, phone service, or repeater system is not locally reachable in an emergency. PSK63, PSK125, or PSK250 is used to modulate either two-meter SSB, or HF SSB transmitters, using horizontally polarized antennas for greatest range. Two meters is unique in that the propagation is more constant than on the lower bands from 6 meters on down, range is greater, and absorption less, than on the lowest UHF band, 70 cm, so much wider modes, that handle QSB by continuing to work far below the noise level, are not needed. This point-to-point system does not utilize repeaters, or email robots, for message forwarding. All forwarding is always done by stations manned by live operators on both ends, who can comfirm that a frequency is clear locally, negotiate a QSY if necessary to avoid causing interference, and confirm delivery of a message by the intended recipient. The system depends upon a multitude of radio amateurs providing the traditional public service function, similar to the way they always have, and gives more hams a chance to help out with emergency communications without requiring a large hardware investment. The software can also be used for daily casual communications on PSK31, PSK63, RTTY, or MFSK16 and is capable of sending flawless, high resolution, passport photo-sized color images, in less than 10 minutes over any path that can sustain PSK250 without excessive repeats. All the members on this digitalradio reflector are invited to participate in the beta test of the NBEMS. The NBEMS suite can be downloaded for beta testing from: http://w1hkj.com/NBEMS/ . Please give the system a try and send comments and bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Happy New Year to you all! The NBEMS Development Team Skip, KH6TY Dave, W1HKJ
[digitalradio] Help file error in VBdigi
Dave/Skip When I attempt to minimize the help files, I get a run time error (350) -- Andy K3UK www.obriensweb.com (QSL via N2RJ)
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Is PACTOR I Actually DEAD For KBD - KBD?
At 08:34 PM 1/1/2008, you wrote: John, you might ask yourself if your above comment is worthy of your personal level of maturity. Roger please, I'm not the one that can't fine a pactor QSO.
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Is PACTOR I Actually DEAD For KBD - KBD?
John Becker, WØJAB wrote: At 08:34 PM 1/1/2008, you wrote: John, you might ask yourself if your above comment is worthy of your personal level of maturity. Roger please, I'm not the one that can't fine a pactor QSO. Yes, John, a terrible moral failing, I know... 8-)
Re: [digitalradio] NBEMS available for beta testing
Andrew O'Brien wrote: On Jan 1, 2008 9:23 PM, kh6ty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The NBEMS development team is pleased to announce the availability of a Windows NBEMS software suite for beta testing. I have downloaded NBEMSsetup and unzipped to a temp folder Any attempt to run "setup.exe" produces the following Zone alarm message. ZoneAlarm Security Suite has blocked setup.exe from creating a new process. If you trust setup.exe and believe it requires a process to be created, then you may want to change the Trust Level of this program. It is also possible that the attempt to create a process was malicious in nature. In that case, you should not change the Trust Level so that your system will continue to be protected. This is the first time that this has occurred on a great number of Setup exe's Consequently I am reluctant to proceed further. Any help appreciated Kevin VK5OA
RE: [digitalradio] Dead HF Packet Group??
At 12:20 PM 1/2/2008, you wrote: AX.25 Packet is (IMHO) useless as an HF mode.. ICK!! -- Patricia (Elaine) Gibbons WA6UBE / AAR9JA http://www.qrz.com/wa6ubehttp://www.qrz.com/wa6ube Mmmm, its a good mode :-) HF Packet is my only link to a BBS, over 1300 kilometres away, I can log on fine, each day on 40 metres, so.HF Packet works fine! I might add, have you tried the newer Robust Packet mode at 200 baud, which under reasonable conditions can run to 600 baud? Whilst I like sound card modes too, there is nothing like a self contained TNC that does not need a fancy PC and software to drive it 8-) 73s Jack VK4JRC
Re: [digitalradio] Frequency accurracy tolerance tnc? main problem for HF-APRS shortwave ?
from K3UK's HF-APRS YahooGroup. -- Forwarded message -- From: oe3mzc mailto:oe3mzc%40oevsv.at[EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Dec 18, 2007 4:22 AM Subject: [HF-APRS] Frequency accurracy tolerance tnc? main problem for HF-APRS shortwave ? To: mailto:HF-APRS%40yahoogroups.com[EMAIL PROTECTED] many tncs for 300baud FSk packet radio used for APRS on hf only decode within a very narrow frequency window of abt. +-30Hz. (KAM, MixW, AGWPE, PK232,SCS PTC-2,TNC-2 etc..) This is very difficult to adjust and represents the main reason for failure in decoding hf-aprs signals. To my knowledge there is only one hardware that could cope with frequency drift in a much better way: a DSP-TNC from SCS see: http://www.scs-ptc.com/datasheets/scs_datasheet_tracker_english.pdfhttp://www.scs-ptc.com/datasheets/scs_datasheet_tracker_english.pdf This DSP modem can simultaneously decode multiple signals in a bandwith of up to plus/minus 400Hz around an adjustable center frequency, e.g. all signals with a 800Hz bandpass will be decoded. When connected in AX25 to two stations at same time, the tnc will even adjust its own transmitted qrgs according to the two partners and their individual offset automatically. The most helpful feature however is the frequency readout. the comand ESC %M enter will display a Mheard list with offset frequencies. This can be used to for tuning. example from 30m APRS channel in Europe: * %m * DIRECTLY RECEIVED HF-PR STATIONS: WIDE3 -15 Hz, DM5LW +25 Hz, OE3MZC-9 -25 Hz, OE3XMU -25 Hz DF5WXF-2 +25 Hz, F4CKT +25 Hz, F6KPH-4 +18 Hz, DF4FO -25 Hz DF4FO-3 -25 Hz, SR3NWY -25 Hz, DB0CHV +0 Hz, SL5ZL -25 Hz F5ZQC-4 +25 Hz, WIDE5 -25 Hz, G0JXN-10 -3 Hz, RA3IM -6 Hz F5LEB +0 Hz, TRACE3 +0 Hz, F6KCF-10 +0 Hz, TRACE2 +0 Hz EA6XQ -6 Hz, EA6XQ-5 +25 Hz, RELAY -6 Hz, UA1WCF -28 Hz HB9CGH-4 +0 Hz, UA1WCF-2 -25 Hz, WIDE7 +25 Hz, F5KCN-3 +25 Hz WIDE2 +0 Hz, G7EOB-7 +0 Hz, G0IQK-10 -25 Hz, MB7UJ +0 Hz * AA1XD -25 Hz, W1JMC -50 Hz *OZ4DX -43 Hz, W1ON -6 Hz, EA6AFM +0 Hz, OK2PEN -28 Hz, EC2A-1 +25 Hz, EB2EMZ-8 +25 Hz, 73 de Mike, OE3MZC I use this very same TNC to transmit my 30 metre HF APRS signals via an Icom 703, from my motorcycle mobile. Have found no trouble for Igates to receive my signals and most of them are using older TNCs. The real good part of this TNC is it can transmit in SCS Robust Packet mode, which is better than ordinary 300 baud HF Packet. The other things with this TNC are, it only has a USB interface, which limits connectivity for many Packet programs. There is NO on board mailbox either, like TNCs of old. I have been looking for software that has inbuilt Mail box facilities that works with the USB of this TNC. As Mike points out in his post, the freq tracking of this TNC is awesome and its a good product, just needs a few design changes to make it more appealing ;-) 73s Jack VK4JRC
