Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Jerry Shao]

Hi all,

I'm going to close this thread and create a new proposal thread (
https://lists.apache.org/thread/fyyhkjvhzl4hpzr52hd64csh5lt2wm6h) with
project name "Uniffle" . Please help to discuss.

Best regards,
Jerry

Daniel B. Widdis  于2022年5月24日周二 01:24写道：

> This conjures up a mental image of a unicorn with the Apache feather
> tickling its nose... I like it.
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 8:36 AM Jerry Shao  wrote:
>
> > Hi team,
> >
> > After discussing with the team, we figured out a new name "Uniffle"
> > (Unified/Universal Shuffle). And we did a name searching, seems there's
> no
> > conflict with this new name.
> >
> > So we'd go with "Uniffle" as new project name. What do you think?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jerry
> >
> > -
> > Uniffle Naming Search
> > Github:
> > Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> > https://github.com/search?q=uniffle
> >
> > SF.net:
> > Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> >
> >
> https://sourceforge.net/directory/os:mac/freshness:recently-updated/?q=Uniffle
> >
> > openhub.net
> > Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> > https://www.openhub.net/p?ref=homepage=Uniffle
> >
> > Google code:
> > Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> > https://opensource.google/s/results?q=Uniffle
> >
> > USPTO:
> >  I use ` Word and/or Design Mark Search (Free Form` of TESS. And type the
> > keyword '(uniffle)[BI,TI] and (software or computer)[GS] and (live)[LD]'
> .
> > There are 0 results
> > And I search
> >
> >
> https://search.uspto.gov/search?affiliate=web-sdmg-uspto.gov_by==uniffle
> > There are 0 results, too.
> >
> >
> > Trademarkia:
> > Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> > https://www.trademarkia.com/trademarks-search.aspx?tn=uniffle
> >
> > EU Organization for Harmonization
> > Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> > https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#basic/1+1+1+1/uniffle
> >
> > Google:
> > Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> > https://www.google.com/search?q=uniffle
> >
> > Bing:
> > Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> > https://www.bing.com/search?q=uniffle
> >
> > Yahoo:
> > Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> > https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=uniffle=1
> >
> > Stackoverflow:
> > Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> > https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=uniffle
> >
> > Saisai Shao  于2022年5月23日周一 20:50写道：
> >
> > > Thanks Justin for the explanation.
> > >
> > > We discussed internally and think that a new name would be better to
> > avoid
> > > potential issue.
> > >
> > > Will figure out a new name.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > Justin Mclean  于2022年5月23日周一 20:29写道：
> > >
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> > There’s a typo in this paragraph that makes it impossible to
> > >> > understand/changes the original meaning.
> > >>
> > >> Apologies I meant to say "I don’t think that is the case.”. From what
> I
> > >> can see trademarks have not approved FireStorm as a name. If the
> project
> > >> wants to enter the incubator with that name, and understands the risks
> > that
> > >> involves then that is OK. Just be aware there is a risk that this may
> > stop
> > >> the project from graduating from the Incubator under that name.
> > >>
> > >> Kind Regards,
> > >> Justin
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dan Widdis
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Daniel B. Widdis]

This conjures up a mental image of a unicorn with the Apache feather
tickling its nose... I like it.

On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 8:36 AM Jerry Shao  wrote:

> Hi team,
>
> After discussing with the team, we figured out a new name "Uniffle"
> (Unified/Universal Shuffle). And we did a name searching, seems there's no
> conflict with this new name.
>
> So we'd go with "Uniffle" as new project name. What do you think?
>
> Best regards,
> Jerry
>
> -
> Uniffle Naming Search
> Github:
> Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> https://github.com/search?q=uniffle
>
> SF.net:
> Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
>
> https://sourceforge.net/directory/os:mac/freshness:recently-updated/?q=Uniffle
>
> openhub.net
> Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> https://www.openhub.net/p?ref=homepage=Uniffle
>
> Google code:
> Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> https://opensource.google/s/results?q=Uniffle
>
> USPTO:
>  I use ` Word and/or Design Mark Search (Free Form` of TESS. And type the
> keyword '(uniffle)[BI,TI] and (software or computer)[GS] and (live)[LD]' .
> There are 0 results
> And I search
>
> https://search.uspto.gov/search?affiliate=web-sdmg-uspto.gov_by==uniffle
> There are 0 results, too.
>
>
> Trademarkia:
> Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> https://www.trademarkia.com/trademarks-search.aspx?tn=uniffle
>
> EU Organization for Harmonization
> Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#basic/1+1+1+1/uniffle
>
> Google:
> Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> https://www.google.com/search?q=uniffle
>
> Bing:
> Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> https://www.bing.com/search?q=uniffle
>
> Yahoo:
> Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=uniffle=1
>
> Stackoverflow:
> Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
> https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=uniffle
>
> Saisai Shao  于2022年5月23日周一 20:50写道：
>
> > Thanks Justin for the explanation.
> >
> > We discussed internally and think that a new name would be better to
> avoid
> > potential issue.
> >
> > Will figure out a new name.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jerry
> >
> > Justin Mclean  于2022年5月23日周一 20:29写道：
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> > There’s a typo in this paragraph that makes it impossible to
> >> > understand/changes the original meaning.
> >>
> >> Apologies I meant to say "I don’t think that is the case.”. From what I
> >> can see trademarks have not approved FireStorm as a name. If the project
> >> wants to enter the incubator with that name, and understands the risks
> that
> >> involves then that is OK. Just be aware there is a risk that this may
> stop
> >> the project from graduating from the Incubator under that name.
> >>
> >> Kind Regards,
> >> Justin
> >
> >
>


-- 
Dan Widdis

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Jerry Shao]

Hi team,

After discussing with the team, we figured out a new name "Uniffle"
(Unified/Universal Shuffle). And we did a name searching, seems there's no
conflict with this new name.

So we'd go with "Uniffle" as new project name. What do you think?

Best regards,
Jerry

-
Uniffle Naming Search
Github:
Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
https://github.com/search?q=uniffle

SF.net:
Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
https://sourceforge.net/directory/os:mac/freshness:recently-updated/?q=Uniffle

openhub.net
Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
https://www.openhub.net/p?ref=homepage=Uniffle

Google code:
Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
https://opensource.google/s/results?q=Uniffle

USPTO:
 I use ` Word and/or Design Mark Search (Free Form` of TESS. And type the
keyword '(uniffle)[BI,TI] and (software or computer)[GS] and (live)[LD]' .
There are 0 results
And I search
https://search.uspto.gov/search?affiliate=web-sdmg-uspto.gov_by==uniffle
There are 0 results, too.


Trademarkia:
Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
https://www.trademarkia.com/trademarks-search.aspx?tn=uniffle

EU Organization for Harmonization
Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#basic/1+1+1+1/uniffle

Google:
Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
https://www.google.com/search?q=uniffle

Bing:
Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
https://www.bing.com/search?q=uniffle

Yahoo:
Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=uniffle=1

Stackoverflow:
Search for Uniffle returns 0 results
https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=uniffle

Saisai Shao  于2022年5月23日周一 20:50写道：

> Thanks Justin for the explanation.
>
> We discussed internally and think that a new name would be better to avoid
> potential issue.
>
> Will figure out a new name.
>
> Best regards,
> Jerry
>
> Justin Mclean  于2022年5月23日周一 20:29写道：
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> > There’s a typo in this paragraph that makes it impossible to
>> > understand/changes the original meaning.
>>
>> Apologies I meant to say "I don’t think that is the case.”. From what I
>> can see trademarks have not approved FireStorm as a name. If the project
>> wants to enter the incubator with that name, and understands the risks that
>> involves then that is OK. Just be aware there is a risk that this may stop
>> the project from graduating from the Incubator under that name.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Justin
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Saisai Shao]

Thanks Justin for the explanation.

We discussed internally and think that a new name would be better to avoid
potential issue.

Will figure out a new name.

Best regards,
Jerry

Justin Mclean  于2022年5月23日周一 20:29写道：

> Hi,
>
> > There’s a typo in this paragraph that makes it impossible to
> > understand/changes the original meaning.
>
> Apologies I meant to say "I don’t think that is the case.”. From what I
> can see trademarks have not approved FireStorm as a name. If the project
> wants to enter the incubator with that name, and understands the risks that
> involves then that is OK. Just be aware there is a risk that this may stop
> the project from graduating from the Incubator under that name.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> There’s a typo in this paragraph that makes it impossible to
> understand/changes the original meaning.

Apologies I meant to say "I don’t think that is the case.”. From what I can see 
trademarks have not approved FireStorm as a name. If the project wants to enter 
the incubator with that name, and understands the risks that involves then that 
is OK. Just be aware there is a risk that this may stop the project from 
graduating from the Incubator under that name.

Kind Regards,
Justin

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Jerry Shao]

Hi John,

I'm a little confused for now. Is name "Firestorm" ok as an Apache podling
name?

Best regards,
Jerry


John D. Ament  于2022年5月23日周一 19:34写道：

> On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 23:32 Daniel Widdis  wrote:
>
> > Adding onto this, even if there may be no legal trademark issue, there is
> > other software by this name which makes it less than desirable.  Quoted
> > from [1]
> >
> > > Avoiding search-results confusion is important for another reason.
> > Apache projects are often very quickly highly ranked. An Apache project
> > with a similar name to another application in the same technical space
> may
> > quickly come to dominate searches in that space. If someone else holds a
> > related trademark, this may lead to a legal dispute. As a non-profit
> > organization, the ASF and Apache projects have no business conflicting
> with
> > an existing trademark for software products or related services.
> >
> > A current search for "firestorm software" reveals multiple sites related
> > to [2]. Searching "firestorm download" links to [3].  Searching "apache
> > firestorm" links to sites providing parts for remote control model cars,
> of
> > which two models compatible with such parts are "Apache" and "Firestorm"
> > [4].
> >
> > 1 - https://infra.apache.org/project-names.html
> > 2 - https://www.zotac.com/us/page/firestorm
> > 3 - https://www.firestormviewer.org/choose-your-platform/
> > 4 - https://www.competitionx.com/hpi-racing-manuals/
> >
>
>
> I don’t believe that’s what we search for here. What we search for is
> expected use of the name. I wonder if part of the skew is search results
> history. I use DuckDuckGo and the top results include this proposal, some
> military related content and a company named Firestorm’s viewer. When I
> search for Tencent Firestorm I only get this proposed project
>
> We wouldn’t expect Apache to get great hits right now.  Long run we would.
> The formal name would be Apache Firestorm.
>
>
> > Not my call, I am not a lawyer and have no binding votes on the
> incubator,
> > just adding my observations.
> >
> > On 5/22/22, 8:04 PM, "Justin Mclean"  wrote:
> >
> > HI,
> >
> > > According to the trademarks@ current cursory feedback, looks like
> > project
> > > name "Firestorm" is OK.
> >
> > I don’t this that is the case. Trademark checked “FlameStorm”, and
> > said that if Firestorm was as issue then FlameStorm would also be an
> issue.
> > I don’t believe they have checked FireStorm.
>
>
> There’s a typo in this paragraph that makes it impossible to
> understand/changes the original meaning.
>
>
>
> >
> > Please don’t under estimate the cost of a project name change, I seen
> > several project go through this and it it is always much more effort than
> > you realise. Based on previous experience, Infra are not likely to make
> it
> > a priority to help with a name change mid incubation or just before
> > gradation.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Justin
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[John D. Ament]

On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 23:32 Daniel Widdis  wrote:

> Adding onto this, even if there may be no legal trademark issue, there is
> other software by this name which makes it less than desirable.  Quoted
> from [1]
>
> > Avoiding search-results confusion is important for another reason.
> Apache projects are often very quickly highly ranked. An Apache project
> with a similar name to another application in the same technical space may
> quickly come to dominate searches in that space. If someone else holds a
> related trademark, this may lead to a legal dispute. As a non-profit
> organization, the ASF and Apache projects have no business conflicting with
> an existing trademark for software products or related services.
>
> A current search for "firestorm software" reveals multiple sites related
> to [2]. Searching "firestorm download" links to [3].  Searching "apache
> firestorm" links to sites providing parts for remote control model cars, of
> which two models compatible with such parts are "Apache" and "Firestorm"
> [4].
>
> 1 - https://infra.apache.org/project-names.html
> 2 - https://www.zotac.com/us/page/firestorm
> 3 - https://www.firestormviewer.org/choose-your-platform/
> 4 - https://www.competitionx.com/hpi-racing-manuals/
>


I don’t believe that’s what we search for here. What we search for is
expected use of the name. I wonder if part of the skew is search results
history. I use DuckDuckGo and the top results include this proposal, some
military related content and a company named Firestorm’s viewer. When I
search for Tencent Firestorm I only get this proposed project

We wouldn’t expect Apache to get great hits right now.  Long run we would.
The formal name would be Apache Firestorm.


> Not my call, I am not a lawyer and have no binding votes on the incubator,
> just adding my observations.
>
> On 5/22/22, 8:04 PM, "Justin Mclean"  wrote:
>
> HI,
>
> > According to the trademarks@ current cursory feedback, looks like
> project
> > name "Firestorm" is OK.
>
> I don’t this that is the case. Trademark checked “FlameStorm”, and
> said that if Firestorm was as issue then FlameStorm would also be an issue.
> I don’t believe they have checked FireStorm.


There’s a typo in this paragraph that makes it impossible to
understand/changes the original meaning.



>
> Please don’t under estimate the cost of a project name change, I seen
> several project go through this and it it is always much more effort than
> you realise. Based on previous experience, Infra are not likely to make it
> a priority to help with a name change mid incubation or just before
> gradation.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Saisai Shao]

I see, thanks Justin and Daniel for your inputs.

Best regards,
Jerry

Daniel Widdis  于2022年5月23日周一 11:32写道：

> Adding onto this, even if there may be no legal trademark issue, there is
> other software by this name which makes it less than desirable.  Quoted
> from [1]
>
> > Avoiding search-results confusion is important for another reason.
> Apache projects are often very quickly highly ranked. An Apache project
> with a similar name to another application in the same technical space may
> quickly come to dominate searches in that space. If someone else holds a
> related trademark, this may lead to a legal dispute. As a non-profit
> organization, the ASF and Apache projects have no business conflicting with
> an existing trademark for software products or related services.
>
> A current search for "firestorm software" reveals multiple sites related
> to [2]. Searching "firestorm download" links to [3].  Searching "apache
> firestorm" links to sites providing parts for remote control model cars, of
> which two models compatible with such parts are "Apache" and "Firestorm"
> [4].
>
> 1 - https://infra.apache.org/project-names.html
> 2 - https://www.zotac.com/us/page/firestorm
> 3 - https://www.firestormviewer.org/choose-your-platform/
> 4 - https://www.competitionx.com/hpi-racing-manuals/
>
> Not my call, I am not a lawyer and have no binding votes on the incubator,
> just adding my observations.
>
> On 5/22/22, 8:04 PM, "Justin Mclean"  wrote:
>
> HI,
>
> > According to the trademarks@ current cursory feedback, looks like
> project
> > name "Firestorm" is OK.
>
> I don’t this that is the case. Trademark checked “FlameStorm”, and
> said that if Firestorm was as issue then FlameStorm would also be an issue.
> I don’t believe they have checked FireStorm.
>
> Please don’t under estimate the cost of a project name change, I seen
> several project go through this and it it is always much more effort than
> you realise. Based on previous experience, Infra are not likely to make it
> a priority to help with a name change mid incubation or just before
> gradation.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Daniel Widdis]

Adding onto this, even if there may be no legal trademark issue, there is other 
software by this name which makes it less than desirable.  Quoted from [1]

> Avoiding search-results confusion is important for another reason. Apache 
> projects are often very quickly highly ranked. An Apache project with a 
> similar name to another application in the same technical space may quickly 
> come to dominate searches in that space. If someone else holds a related 
> trademark, this may lead to a legal dispute. As a non-profit organization, 
> the ASF and Apache projects have no business conflicting with an existing 
> trademark for software products or related services.

A current search for "firestorm software" reveals multiple sites related to 
[2]. Searching "firestorm download" links to [3].  Searching "apache firestorm" 
links to sites providing parts for remote control model cars, of which two 
models compatible with such parts are "Apache" and "Firestorm" [4].

1 - https://infra.apache.org/project-names.html 
2 - https://www.zotac.com/us/page/firestorm 
3 - https://www.firestormviewer.org/choose-your-platform/ 
4 - https://www.competitionx.com/hpi-racing-manuals/ 

Not my call, I am not a lawyer and have no binding votes on the incubator, just 
adding my observations.

On 5/22/22, 8:04 PM, "Justin Mclean"  wrote:

HI,

> According to the trademarks@ current cursory feedback, looks like project
> name "Firestorm" is OK.

I don’t this that is the case. Trademark checked “FlameStorm”, and said 
that if Firestorm was as issue then FlameStorm would also be an issue. I don’t 
believe they have checked FireStorm.

Please don’t under estimate the cost of a project name change, I seen 
several project go through this and it it is always much more effort than you 
realise. Based on previous experience, Infra are not likely to make it a 
priority to help with a name change mid incubation or just before gradation.

Kind Regards,
Justin


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org




-
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Justin Mclean]

HI,

> According to the trademarks@ current cursory feedback, looks like project
> name "Firestorm" is OK.

I don’t this that is the case. Trademark checked “FlameStorm”, and said that if 
Firestorm was as issue then FlameStorm would also be an issue. I don’t believe 
they have checked FireStorm.

Please don’t under estimate the cost of a project name change, I seen several 
project go through this and it it is always much more effort than you realise. 
Based on previous experience, Infra are not likely to make it a priority to 
help with a name change mid incubation or just before gradation.

Kind Regards,
Justin


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Jerry Shao]

Hi all,

Thanks for your feedbacks.

According to the trademarks@ current cursory feedback, looks like project
name "Firestorm" is OK.

After a quick search of registered US trademarks I don't see anything
> that would give me cause for concern.
>
> Note that if FIRESTORM was infringing, then I would not be prepared to
> approve FLAMESTORM either.
>


> I am saying having reviewed the registered marks at the USTPO for
> FIRESTORM I do not see any reason to reject FIRESTORM as a name for an

Apache podling.


I think maybe we could continue the proposal and do a PNS during podling.

What do you think?

Thanks
Jerry


Shuai Di  于2022年5月21日周六 22:51写道：

> +1 (non-binding)
> Interesting project, good luck!
>
> Shuai Di
> Best Regards.
>
> 俊平堵  于2022年5月21日周六 10:40写道：
>
> >
> > I cannot agree more.
> > In ASF, we have many SQLs, MQs, streamings, etc, and some projects among
> > them are really awesome. We (in ASF) should not be in the position to ask
> > projects to merge but leave it to community (users and developers) of
> > projects to decide if they want to.
> > Appreciate Jerry and Yu who spend time to discuss the possibilities of
> > working together in some way.
> > +1 on the proposal and good luck to Firestorm!
> >
> > Justin Mclean  于2022年5月18日周三 15:12写道：
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > It would be good if the project could work together, but there isn’t
> > > anything wrong with having two similar incubating projects. If the
> projects
> > > decide not to join forces, we would welcome an incubating proposal
> from the
> > > other project. The ASF doesn't pick projects to use, we let the wider
> user
> > > community decide what they want to use.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Justin
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Shuai Di]

+1 (non-binding)
Interesting project, good luck!

Shuai Di
Best Regards.

俊平堵  于2022年5月21日周六 10:40写道：

>
> I cannot agree more.
> In ASF, we have many SQLs, MQs, streamings, etc, and some projects among
> them are really awesome. We (in ASF) should not be in the position to ask
> projects to merge but leave it to community (users and developers) of
> projects to decide if they want to.
> Appreciate Jerry and Yu who spend time to discuss the possibilities of
> working together in some way.
> +1 on the proposal and good luck to Firestorm!
>
> Justin Mclean  于2022年5月18日周三 15:12写道：
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > It would be good if the project could work together, but there isn’t
> > anything wrong with having two similar incubating projects. If the projects
> > decide not to join forces, we would welcome an incubating proposal from the
> > other project. The ASF doesn't pick projects to use, we let the wider user
> > community decide what they want to use.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Justin
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[俊平堵]

I cannot agree more.
In ASF, we have many SQLs, MQs, streamings, etc, and some projects among
them are really awesome. We (in ASF) should not be in the position to ask
projects to merge but leave it to community (users and developers) of
projects to decide if they want to.
Appreciate Jerry and Yu who spend time to discuss the possibilities of
working together in some way.
+1 on the proposal and good luck to Firestorm!

Justin Mclean  于2022年5月18日周三 15:12写道：

> Hi,
>
> It would be good if the project could work together, but there isn’t
> anything wrong with having two similar incubating projects. If the projects
> decide not to join forces, we would welcome an incubating proposal from the
> other project. The ASF doesn't pick projects to use, we let the wider user
> community decide what they want to use.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Juan Pan]

Hi Justin,


Thanks for your input. And good luck to Firestorm team!



--
Trista Pan
Twitter & Github: tristaZero




On 05/18/2022 16:27，Justin Mclean wrote：
Hi,

It’s a bit different from my impression, could I know it’s fine to have many 
projects sharing much similar functions or aiming in parallel here?

It's 100% fine and we have many TLP that do similar things as each other.

Kind Regards,
Justin
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Yu Li]

Thanks Willem for the coordination, and thanks Jerry and the Firestorm team
for the open discussion!

+1 for the proposal. Good luck and hope our paths could cross in the future
(smile).

Best Regards,
Yu


On Thu, 19 May 2022 at 11:28, Willem Jiang  wrote:

> Hi，
>
> We just had a quick meeting to talk about the possibility of the joint
> effort today.
>
> Jerry ,Yu and I expressed the pros and cons about merging the project
> together,  we also discussed the challenges (legal affairs, design and
> codebase decision making) of merging these two projects together. As
> there are a lot of things that need to be done before two teams can
> work together, both sides agree to enter the ASF incubator first then
> we can seek the possibility of joint efforts in the future.
>
>
> Willem Jiang
>
> Twitter: willemjiang
> Weibo: 姜宁willem
>
> On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 6:40 PM Yu Li  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks all for the considerate comments and thanks Jerry (and Firestorm
> > team) for the open mind.
> >
> > I totally agree that working as one project/community is a good wish
> > instead of a prerequisite (and I believe no one meant this actually),
> and I
> > don't have any intention to block the incubating process of Firestorm.
> >
> > I believe that even if we cannot make it a joint force, the two projects
> > could be good frenemy with competitive friendship (smile).
> >
> > Let's discuss more offline. :-)
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Yu
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 17:41, Jerry Shao  wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, I think we could discuss the possibilities offline.
> > >
> > > But I would like to clarify that "merging these projects together" is
> > > neither a "problem" (a "wish" indeed), nor a prerequisite for
> incubating.
> > > In the heyday of Hadoop, there were so many similar or even same
> purpose
> > > projects in ASF, the choice is made by user, not by ASF.
> > >
> > > Best
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > Willem Jiang  于2022年5月18日周三 17:17写道：
> > >
> > > > On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 2:50 PM Sheng Wu 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Firestorm community
> > > > >
> > > > > Considering what Yu Li is proposing, I would recommend you could do
> > > > > some discussions directly, maybe off the list if you want.
> > > > > Both of the projects are young and very new to the community, it
> may
> > > > > be not a concern from my perspective(may be concerned by some
> IPMC),
> > > > > as one/both could fail in the incubating. But with you are going to
> > > > > work on the similar things, the challenge would be for both of your
> > > > > projects to establish the incubating process. Also, when we talk
> about
> > > > > graduation in the future, it would be my concern of causing
> confusion
> > > > > to users.
> > > > >
> > > > > Two TLPs are nearly the same is really not a good practice from the
> > > > > foundation level.
> > > > >
> > > > > > We heartfully welcome you to join Firestorm project and
> community.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, I suggest not just saying joining Firestorm, this may be a
> simple
> > > > > reaction, I hope you could do more.
> > > > > This is an opportunity to do a bigger and more powerful project
> > > > > supported by Tencent and Alibaba's initial teams.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > After talking with LiYu and Jerry Shao,  I realized there could be
> > > > some challenges we may face.
> > > > But it would be great if we can work together to tackle the same
> problem.
> > > > I'd like to help two teams to start a meeting to discuss the
> > > > possibility of merging these projects together.
> > > >
> > > > Willem Jiang
> > > >
> > > > Twitter: willemjiang
> > > > Weibo: 姜宁willem
> > > >
> > > > > I know it is not easy to do a joint project, but it is actually
> much
> > > > > better to see you two competing with each other in the next 1-2
> years.
> > > > > In the ASF, we hope to create a better project for the whole
> industry.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > > > > Twitter, wusheng1108
> > > > >
> > > > > Jerry Shao  于2022年5月18日周三 14:38写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Yu，
> > > > > >
> > > > > > IMO, I think we're open and welcome all the contributions. We
> > > > heartfully
> > > > > > welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yu Li  于2022年5月18日周三 13:36写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good to see the proposal for incubating a uniform remote
> shuffle
> > > > service.
> > > > > > > Coincidently, we are preparing an incubating proposal for the
> same
> > > > > > > direction based on two open source projects Alibaba is driving
> [1]
> > > > [2], and
> > > > > > > I'm the champion for that. Our proposal is still not fully
> prepared
> > > > because
> > > > > > > the merge of the two projects is still in progress, and I'm
> writing
> > > > this
> > > > > > > email to check whether it's possible that we have a joint
> force to
> > > > achieve
> > > > > > > the same goal. I 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Saisai Shao]

Thanks Willem for organizing, thanks Yu to join and have this open
discussion.

We have made a consensus that both projects developing separately, and seek
the opportunity to collaborate in future. So +1 from my side.

Back to the merging or separation discussion, I think both ways have pros
and cons, and currently we cannot clearly see which way is more good than
harm. So I think we could leave the user, community and time to decide. If
someday in the future, we think that the two projects should be merged for
any reason, and we can clearly see the advantages, we will definitely do
this.

Regard to the current challenges, I think it is existed and cannot be
neglected from many areas (legal, architecture, codebase, time efforts),
and will potentially make the cost too high to afford. So without seeing
the clear advantages, I would incline to be conservative.

Thanks all for your kind suggestions and open discussion.

Best regards,
Jerry


Willem Jiang  于2022年5月19日周四 11:28写道：

> Hi，
>
> We just had a quick meeting to talk about the possibility of the joint
> effort today.
>
> Jerry ,Yu and I expressed the pros and cons about merging the project
> together,  we also discussed the challenges (legal affairs, design and
> codebase decision making) of merging these two projects together. As
> there are a lot of things that need to be done before two teams can
> work together, both sides agree to enter the ASF incubator first then
> we can seek the possibility of joint efforts in the future.
>
>
> Willem Jiang
>
> Twitter: willemjiang
> Weibo: 姜宁willem
>
> On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 6:40 PM Yu Li  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks all for the considerate comments and thanks Jerry (and Firestorm
> > team) for the open mind.
> >
> > I totally agree that working as one project/community is a good wish
> > instead of a prerequisite (and I believe no one meant this actually),
> and I
> > don't have any intention to block the incubating process of Firestorm.
> >
> > I believe that even if we cannot make it a joint force, the two projects
> > could be good frenemy with competitive friendship (smile).
> >
> > Let's discuss more offline. :-)
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Yu
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 17:41, Jerry Shao  wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, I think we could discuss the possibilities offline.
> > >
> > > But I would like to clarify that "merging these projects together" is
> > > neither a "problem" (a "wish" indeed), nor a prerequisite for
> incubating.
> > > In the heyday of Hadoop, there were so many similar or even same
> purpose
> > > projects in ASF, the choice is made by user, not by ASF.
> > >
> > > Best
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > Willem Jiang  于2022年5月18日周三 17:17写道：
> > >
> > > > On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 2:50 PM Sheng Wu 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Firestorm community
> > > > >
> > > > > Considering what Yu Li is proposing, I would recommend you could do
> > > > > some discussions directly, maybe off the list if you want.
> > > > > Both of the projects are young and very new to the community, it
> may
> > > > > be not a concern from my perspective(may be concerned by some
> IPMC),
> > > > > as one/both could fail in the incubating. But with you are going to
> > > > > work on the similar things, the challenge would be for both of your
> > > > > projects to establish the incubating process. Also, when we talk
> about
> > > > > graduation in the future, it would be my concern of causing
> confusion
> > > > > to users.
> > > > >
> > > > > Two TLPs are nearly the same is really not a good practice from the
> > > > > foundation level.
> > > > >
> > > > > > We heartfully welcome you to join Firestorm project and
> community.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, I suggest not just saying joining Firestorm, this may be a
> simple
> > > > > reaction, I hope you could do more.
> > > > > This is an opportunity to do a bigger and more powerful project
> > > > > supported by Tencent and Alibaba's initial teams.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > After talking with LiYu and Jerry Shao,  I realized there could be
> > > > some challenges we may face.
> > > > But it would be great if we can work together to tackle the same
> problem.
> > > > I'd like to help two teams to start a meeting to discuss the
> > > > possibility of merging these projects together.
> > > >
> > > > Willem Jiang
> > > >
> > > > Twitter: willemjiang
> > > > Weibo: 姜宁willem
> > > >
> > > > > I know it is not easy to do a joint project, but it is actually
> much
> > > > > better to see you two competing with each other in the next 1-2
> years.
> > > > > In the ASF, we hope to create a better project for the whole
> industry.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > > > > Twitter, wusheng1108
> > > > >
> > > > > Jerry Shao  于2022年5月18日周三 14:38写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Yu，
> > > > > >
> > > > > > IMO, I think we're open and welcome all the contributions. We
> > > > heartfully
> > > > > > welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards,
> 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Willem Jiang]

Hi，

We just had a quick meeting to talk about the possibility of the joint
effort today.

Jerry ,Yu and I expressed the pros and cons about merging the project
together,  we also discussed the challenges (legal affairs, design and
codebase decision making) of merging these two projects together. As
there are a lot of things that need to be done before two teams can
work together, both sides agree to enter the ASF incubator first then
we can seek the possibility of joint efforts in the future.


Willem Jiang

Twitter: willemjiang
Weibo: 姜宁willem

On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 6:40 PM Yu Li  wrote:
>
> Thanks all for the considerate comments and thanks Jerry (and Firestorm
> team) for the open mind.
>
> I totally agree that working as one project/community is a good wish
> instead of a prerequisite (and I believe no one meant this actually), and I
> don't have any intention to block the incubating process of Firestorm.
>
> I believe that even if we cannot make it a joint force, the two projects
> could be good frenemy with competitive friendship (smile).
>
> Let's discuss more offline. :-)
>
> Best Regards,
> Yu
>
>
> On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 17:41, Jerry Shao  wrote:
>
> > Yes, I think we could discuss the possibilities offline.
> >
> > But I would like to clarify that "merging these projects together" is
> > neither a "problem" (a "wish" indeed), nor a prerequisite for incubating.
> > In the heyday of Hadoop, there were so many similar or even same purpose
> > projects in ASF, the choice is made by user, not by ASF.
> >
> > Best
> > Jerry
> >
> > Willem Jiang  于2022年5月18日周三 17:17写道：
> >
> > > On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 2:50 PM Sheng Wu 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Firestorm community
> > > >
> > > > Considering what Yu Li is proposing, I would recommend you could do
> > > > some discussions directly, maybe off the list if you want.
> > > > Both of the projects are young and very new to the community, it may
> > > > be not a concern from my perspective(may be concerned by some IPMC),
> > > > as one/both could fail in the incubating. But with you are going to
> > > > work on the similar things, the challenge would be for both of your
> > > > projects to establish the incubating process. Also, when we talk about
> > > > graduation in the future, it would be my concern of causing confusion
> > > > to users.
> > > >
> > > > Two TLPs are nearly the same is really not a good practice from the
> > > > foundation level.
> > > >
> > > > > We heartfully welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
> > > >
> > > > So, I suggest not just saying joining Firestorm, this may be a simple
> > > > reaction, I hope you could do more.
> > > > This is an opportunity to do a bigger and more powerful project
> > > > supported by Tencent and Alibaba's initial teams.
> > > >
> > >
> > > After talking with LiYu and Jerry Shao,  I realized there could be
> > > some challenges we may face.
> > > But it would be great if we can work together to tackle the same problem.
> > > I'd like to help two teams to start a meeting to discuss the
> > > possibility of merging these projects together.
> > >
> > > Willem Jiang
> > >
> > > Twitter: willemjiang
> > > Weibo: 姜宁willem
> > >
> > > > I know it is not easy to do a joint project, but it is actually much
> > > > better to see you two competing with each other in the next 1-2 years.
> > > > In the ASF, we hope to create a better project for the whole industry.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > > > Twitter, wusheng1108
> > > >
> > > > Jerry Shao  于2022年5月18日周三 14:38写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Yu，
> > > > >
> > > > > IMO, I think we're open and welcome all the contributions. We
> > > heartfully
> > > > > welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > > > Yu Li  于2022年5月18日周三 13:36写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good to see the proposal for incubating a uniform remote shuffle
> > > service.
> > > > > > Coincidently, we are preparing an incubating proposal for the same
> > > > > > direction based on two open source projects Alibaba is driving [1]
> > > [2], and
> > > > > > I'm the champion for that. Our proposal is still not fully prepared
> > > because
> > > > > > the merge of the two projects is still in progress, and I'm writing
> > > this
> > > > > > email to check whether it's possible that we have a joint force to
> > > achieve
> > > > > > the same goal. I believe it will be cool if we could do this
> > > together,
> > > > > > although there will be a lot (more) work to do to make this happen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please let me know your thoughts and let's have more discussions if
> > > you're
> > > > > > also interested. Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > > Yu
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] https://github.com/flink-extended/flink-remote-shuffle
> > > > > > [2] https://github.com/alibaba/RemoteShuffleService
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Yu Li]

Thanks all for the considerate comments and thanks Jerry (and Firestorm
team) for the open mind.

I totally agree that working as one project/community is a good wish
instead of a prerequisite (and I believe no one meant this actually), and I
don't have any intention to block the incubating process of Firestorm.

I believe that even if we cannot make it a joint force, the two projects
could be good frenemy with competitive friendship (smile).

Let's discuss more offline. :-)

Best Regards,
Yu


On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 17:41, Jerry Shao  wrote:

> Yes, I think we could discuss the possibilities offline.
>
> But I would like to clarify that "merging these projects together" is
> neither a "problem" (a "wish" indeed), nor a prerequisite for incubating.
> In the heyday of Hadoop, there were so many similar or even same purpose
> projects in ASF, the choice is made by user, not by ASF.
>
> Best
> Jerry
>
> Willem Jiang  于2022年5月18日周三 17:17写道：
>
> > On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 2:50 PM Sheng Wu 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Firestorm community
> > >
> > > Considering what Yu Li is proposing, I would recommend you could do
> > > some discussions directly, maybe off the list if you want.
> > > Both of the projects are young and very new to the community, it may
> > > be not a concern from my perspective(may be concerned by some IPMC),
> > > as one/both could fail in the incubating. But with you are going to
> > > work on the similar things, the challenge would be for both of your
> > > projects to establish the incubating process. Also, when we talk about
> > > graduation in the future, it would be my concern of causing confusion
> > > to users.
> > >
> > > Two TLPs are nearly the same is really not a good practice from the
> > > foundation level.
> > >
> > > > We heartfully welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
> > >
> > > So, I suggest not just saying joining Firestorm, this may be a simple
> > > reaction, I hope you could do more.
> > > This is an opportunity to do a bigger and more powerful project
> > > supported by Tencent and Alibaba's initial teams.
> > >
> >
> > After talking with LiYu and Jerry Shao,  I realized there could be
> > some challenges we may face.
> > But it would be great if we can work together to tackle the same problem.
> > I'd like to help two teams to start a meeting to discuss the
> > possibility of merging these projects together.
> >
> > Willem Jiang
> >
> > Twitter: willemjiang
> > Weibo: 姜宁willem
> >
> > > I know it is not easy to do a joint project, but it is actually much
> > > better to see you two competing with each other in the next 1-2 years.
> > > In the ASF, we hope to create a better project for the whole industry.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > > Twitter, wusheng1108
> > >
> > > Jerry Shao  于2022年5月18日周三 14:38写道：
> > > >
> > > > Hi Yu，
> > > >
> > > > IMO, I think we're open and welcome all the contributions. We
> > heartfully
> > > > welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > > Yu Li  于2022年5月18日周三 13:36写道：
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > > >
> > > > > Good to see the proposal for incubating a uniform remote shuffle
> > service.
> > > > > Coincidently, we are preparing an incubating proposal for the same
> > > > > direction based on two open source projects Alibaba is driving [1]
> > [2], and
> > > > > I'm the champion for that. Our proposal is still not fully prepared
> > because
> > > > > the merge of the two projects is still in progress, and I'm writing
> > this
> > > > > email to check whether it's possible that we have a joint force to
> > achieve
> > > > > the same goal. I believe it will be cool if we could do this
> > together,
> > > > > although there will be a lot (more) work to do to make this happen.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please let me know your thoughts and let's have more discussions if
> > you're
> > > > > also interested. Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > Yu
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://github.com/flink-extended/flink-remote-shuffle
> > > > > [2] https://github.com/alibaba/RemoteShuffleService
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Jerry Shao]

Yes, I think we could discuss the possibilities offline.

But I would like to clarify that "merging these projects together" is
neither a "problem" (a "wish" indeed), nor a prerequisite for incubating.
In the heyday of Hadoop, there were so many similar or even same purpose
projects in ASF, the choice is made by user, not by ASF.

Best
Jerry

Willem Jiang  于2022年5月18日周三 17:17写道：

> On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 2:50 PM Sheng Wu 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Firestorm community
> >
> > Considering what Yu Li is proposing, I would recommend you could do
> > some discussions directly, maybe off the list if you want.
> > Both of the projects are young and very new to the community, it may
> > be not a concern from my perspective(may be concerned by some IPMC),
> > as one/both could fail in the incubating. But with you are going to
> > work on the similar things, the challenge would be for both of your
> > projects to establish the incubating process. Also, when we talk about
> > graduation in the future, it would be my concern of causing confusion
> > to users.
> >
> > Two TLPs are nearly the same is really not a good practice from the
> > foundation level.
> >
> > > We heartfully welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
> >
> > So, I suggest not just saying joining Firestorm, this may be a simple
> > reaction, I hope you could do more.
> > This is an opportunity to do a bigger and more powerful project
> > supported by Tencent and Alibaba's initial teams.
> >
>
> After talking with LiYu and Jerry Shao,  I realized there could be
> some challenges we may face.
> But it would be great if we can work together to tackle the same problem.
> I'd like to help two teams to start a meeting to discuss the
> possibility of merging these projects together.
>
> Willem Jiang
>
> Twitter: willemjiang
> Weibo: 姜宁willem
>
> > I know it is not easy to do a joint project, but it is actually much
> > better to see you two competing with each other in the next 1-2 years.
> > In the ASF, we hope to create a better project for the whole industry.
> >
> >
> > Sheng Wu 吴晟
> > Twitter, wusheng1108
> >
> > Jerry Shao  于2022年5月18日周三 14:38写道：
> > >
> > > Hi Yu，
> > >
> > > IMO, I think we're open and welcome all the contributions. We
> heartfully
> > > welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > Yu Li  于2022年5月18日周三 13:36写道：
> > >
> > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > >
> > > > Good to see the proposal for incubating a uniform remote shuffle
> service.
> > > > Coincidently, we are preparing an incubating proposal for the same
> > > > direction based on two open source projects Alibaba is driving [1]
> [2], and
> > > > I'm the champion for that. Our proposal is still not fully prepared
> because
> > > > the merge of the two projects is still in progress, and I'm writing
> this
> > > > email to check whether it's possible that we have a joint force to
> achieve
> > > > the same goal. I believe it will be cool if we could do this
> together,
> > > > although there will be a lot (more) work to do to make this happen.
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know your thoughts and let's have more discussions if
> you're
> > > > also interested. Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > Yu
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://github.com/flink-extended/flink-remote-shuffle
> > > > [2] https://github.com/alibaba/RemoteShuffleService
> > > >
> > > >
>
> -
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>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Willem Jiang]

On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 2:50 PM Sheng Wu  wrote:
>
> Hi Firestorm community
>
> Considering what Yu Li is proposing, I would recommend you could do
> some discussions directly, maybe off the list if you want.
> Both of the projects are young and very new to the community, it may
> be not a concern from my perspective(may be concerned by some IPMC),
> as one/both could fail in the incubating. But with you are going to
> work on the similar things, the challenge would be for both of your
> projects to establish the incubating process. Also, when we talk about
> graduation in the future, it would be my concern of causing confusion
> to users.
>
> Two TLPs are nearly the same is really not a good practice from the
> foundation level.
>
> > We heartfully welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
>
> So, I suggest not just saying joining Firestorm, this may be a simple
> reaction, I hope you could do more.
> This is an opportunity to do a bigger and more powerful project
> supported by Tencent and Alibaba's initial teams.
>

After talking with LiYu and Jerry Shao,  I realized there could be
some challenges we may face.
But it would be great if we can work together to tackle the same problem.
I'd like to help two teams to start a meeting to discuss the
possibility of merging these projects together.

Willem Jiang

Twitter: willemjiang
Weibo: 姜宁willem

> I know it is not easy to do a joint project, but it is actually much
> better to see you two competing with each other in the next 1-2 years.
> In the ASF, we hope to create a better project for the whole industry.
>
>
> Sheng Wu 吴晟
> Twitter, wusheng1108
>
> Jerry Shao  于2022年5月18日周三 14:38写道：
> >
> > Hi Yu，
> >
> > IMO, I think we're open and welcome all the contributions. We heartfully
> > welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jerry
> >
> > Yu Li  于2022年5月18日周三 13:36写道：
> >
> > > Hi Jerry,
> > >
> > > Good to see the proposal for incubating a uniform remote shuffle service.
> > > Coincidently, we are preparing an incubating proposal for the same
> > > direction based on two open source projects Alibaba is driving [1] [2], 
> > > and
> > > I'm the champion for that. Our proposal is still not fully prepared 
> > > because
> > > the merge of the two projects is still in progress, and I'm writing this
> > > email to check whether it's possible that we have a joint force to achieve
> > > the same goal. I believe it will be cool if we could do this together,
> > > although there will be a lot (more) work to do to make this happen.
> > >
> > > Please let me know your thoughts and let's have more discussions if you're
> > > also interested. Thanks.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Yu
> > >
> > > [1] https://github.com/flink-extended/flink-remote-shuffle
> > > [2] https://github.com/alibaba/RemoteShuffleService
> > >
> > >

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> It’s a bit different from my impression, could I know it’s fine to have many 
> projects sharing much similar functions or aiming in parallel here?

It's 100% fine and we have many TLP that do similar things as each other.

Kind Regards,
Justin
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Re： [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[BLAST]

Hi ShengWu
 Is there a successful precedent for this open source in the 
community?



---

在 2022/5/18 下午2:50，“Sheng Wu”https://github.com/flink-extended/flink-remote-shuffle

   [2] https://github.com/alibaba/RemoteShuffleService

  

  

   On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 12:15, Jerry Shao 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Jerry Shao]

Thanks guys for your opinions, we will discuss the things off the list.

But AFAIK, this should not be the blocking issue here for incubating.

Best,
Jerry

Juan Pan  于2022年5月18日周三 15:31写道：

> Hello Justin,
>
>
> > If the projects decide not to join forces, we would welcome an
> incubating proposal from the other project. The ASF doesn't pick projects
> to use, we let the wider user community decide what they want to use.
>
>
> It’s a bit different from my impression, could I know it’s fine to have
> many projects sharing much similar functions or aiming in parallel here?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Trista
>
> --
> Trista Pan
> Twitter & Github: tristaZero
>
>
>
>
> On 05/18/2022 15:12，Justin Mclean wrote：
> Hi,
>
> It would be good if the project could work together, but there isn’t
> anything wrong with having two similar incubating projects. If the projects
> decide not to join forces, we would welcome an incubating proposal from the
> other project. The ASF doesn't pick projects to use, we let the wider user
> community decide what they want to use.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Juan Pan]

Hello Justin,


> If the projects decide not to join forces, we would welcome an incubating 
> proposal from the other project. The ASF doesn't pick projects to use, we let 
> the wider user community decide what they want to use.


It’s a bit different from my impression, could I know it’s fine to have many 
projects sharing much similar functions or aiming in parallel here?


Thanks,
Trista
--
Trista Pan
Twitter & Github: tristaZero




On 05/18/2022 15:12，Justin Mclean wrote：
Hi,

It would be good if the project could work together, but there isn’t anything 
wrong with having two similar incubating projects. If the projects decide not 
to join forces, we would welcome an incubating proposal from the other project. 
The ASF doesn't pick projects to use, we let the wider user community decide 
what they want to use.

Kind Regards,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

It would be good if the project could work together, but there isn’t anything 
wrong with having two similar incubating projects. If the projects decide not 
to join forces, we would welcome an incubating proposal from the other project. 
The ASF doesn't pick projects to use, we let the wider user community decide 
what they want to use.

Kind Regards,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Daniel Widdis]

+1 to this.  Would love to see both groups come together.

On 5/17/22, 11:50 PM, "Sheng Wu"  wrote:

Hi Firestorm community

Considering what Yu Li is proposing, I would recommend you could do
some discussions directly, maybe off the list if you want.
Both of the projects are young and very new to the community, it may
be not a concern from my perspective(may be concerned by some IPMC),
as one/both could fail in the incubating. But with you are going to
work on the similar things, the challenge would be for both of your
projects to establish the incubating process. Also, when we talk about
graduation in the future, it would be my concern of causing confusion
to users.

Two TLPs are nearly the same is really not a good practice from the
foundation level.

> We heartfully welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.

So, I suggest not just saying joining Firestorm, this may be a simple
reaction, I hope you could do more.
This is an opportunity to do a bigger and more powerful project
supported by Tencent and Alibaba's initial teams.

I know it is not easy to do a joint project, but it is actually much
better to see you two competing with each other in the next 1-2 years.
In the ASF, we hope to create a better project for the whole industry.


Sheng Wu 吴晟
Twitter, wusheng1108

Jerry Shao  于2022年5月18日周三 14:38写道：
>
> Hi Yu，
>
> IMO, I think we're open and welcome all the contributions. We heartfully
> welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
>
> Best regards,
> Jerry
>
> Yu Li  于2022年5月18日周三 13:36写道：
>
> > Hi Jerry,
> >
> > Good to see the proposal for incubating a uniform remote shuffle 
service.
> > Coincidently, we are preparing an incubating proposal for the same
> > direction based on two open source projects Alibaba is driving [1] [2], 
and
> > I'm the champion for that. Our proposal is still not fully prepared 
because
> > the merge of the two projects is still in progress, and I'm writing this
> > email to check whether it's possible that we have a joint force to 
achieve
> > the same goal. I believe it will be cool if we could do this together,
> > although there will be a lot (more) work to do to make this happen.
> >
> > Please let me know your thoughts and let's have more discussions if 
you're
> > also interested. Thanks.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Yu
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/flink-extended/flink-remote-shuffle
> > [2] https://github.com/alibaba/RemoteShuffleService
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 12:15, Jerry Shao  wrote:
> >
> > > Sure Felix, let me add you to the list.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > Felix Cheung  于2022年5月18日周三 11:59写道：
> > >
> > > > Same here, would love to see if I can help, Jerry.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:31 PM Saisai Shao 

> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks Weiwei, let me add you to the mentor list.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > > > Weiwei Yang  于2022年5月17日周二 12:18写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > +1
> > > > > > This is an interesting project, I'd be happy to help the 
project's
> > > > > > incubation process.
> > > > > > Let me know if you need my help, Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 8:09 PM Saisai Shao <
> > sai.sai.s...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Got it, thanks a lot Justin.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 
10:59写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The new project name doesn’t need to be a registered 
trademark,
> > > but
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > > would still need to pick a name that is now likely to have 
any
> > > > > > trademark
> > > > > > > > issues.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The project may want to get the ASF to register the mark at 
a
> > > later
> > > > > > date,
> > > > > > > > but it wold be best to talk abut that on the trademarks@ 
list.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > > Justin
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > 
-
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Sheng Wu]

Hi Firestorm community

Considering what Yu Li is proposing, I would recommend you could do
some discussions directly, maybe off the list if you want.
Both of the projects are young and very new to the community, it may
be not a concern from my perspective(may be concerned by some IPMC),
as one/both could fail in the incubating. But with you are going to
work on the similar things, the challenge would be for both of your
projects to establish the incubating process. Also, when we talk about
graduation in the future, it would be my concern of causing confusion
to users.

Two TLPs are nearly the same is really not a good practice from the
foundation level.

> We heartfully welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.

So, I suggest not just saying joining Firestorm, this may be a simple
reaction, I hope you could do more.
This is an opportunity to do a bigger and more powerful project
supported by Tencent and Alibaba's initial teams.

I know it is not easy to do a joint project, but it is actually much
better to see you two competing with each other in the next 1-2 years.
In the ASF, we hope to create a better project for the whole industry.


Sheng Wu 吴晟
Twitter, wusheng1108

Jerry Shao  于2022年5月18日周三 14:38写道：
>
> Hi Yu，
>
> IMO, I think we're open and welcome all the contributions. We heartfully
> welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.
>
> Best regards,
> Jerry
>
> Yu Li  于2022年5月18日周三 13:36写道：
>
> > Hi Jerry,
> >
> > Good to see the proposal for incubating a uniform remote shuffle service.
> > Coincidently, we are preparing an incubating proposal for the same
> > direction based on two open source projects Alibaba is driving [1] [2], and
> > I'm the champion for that. Our proposal is still not fully prepared because
> > the merge of the two projects is still in progress, and I'm writing this
> > email to check whether it's possible that we have a joint force to achieve
> > the same goal. I believe it will be cool if we could do this together,
> > although there will be a lot (more) work to do to make this happen.
> >
> > Please let me know your thoughts and let's have more discussions if you're
> > also interested. Thanks.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Yu
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/flink-extended/flink-remote-shuffle
> > [2] https://github.com/alibaba/RemoteShuffleService
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 12:15, Jerry Shao  wrote:
> >
> > > Sure Felix, let me add you to the list.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > Felix Cheung  于2022年5月18日周三 11:59写道：
> > >
> > > > Same here, would love to see if I can help, Jerry.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:31 PM Saisai Shao 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks Weiwei, let me add you to the mentor list.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > > > Weiwei Yang  于2022年5月17日周二 12:18写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > +1
> > > > > > This is an interesting project, I'd be happy to help the project's
> > > > > > incubation process.
> > > > > > Let me know if you need my help, Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 8:09 PM Saisai Shao <
> > sai.sai.s...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Got it, thanks a lot Justin.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 10:59写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The new project name doesn’t need to be a registered trademark,
> > > but
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > > would still need to pick a name that is now likely to have any
> > > > > > trademark
> > > > > > > > issues.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The project may want to get the ASF to register the mark at a
> > > later
> > > > > > date,
> > > > > > > > but it wold be best to talk abut that on the trademarks@ list.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > > Justin
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > -
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >

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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Jerry Shao]

Hi Yu，

IMO, I think we're open and welcome all the contributions. We heartfully
welcome you to join Firestorm project and community.

Best regards,
Jerry

Yu Li  于2022年5月18日周三 13:36写道：

> Hi Jerry,
>
> Good to see the proposal for incubating a uniform remote shuffle service.
> Coincidently, we are preparing an incubating proposal for the same
> direction based on two open source projects Alibaba is driving [1] [2], and
> I'm the champion for that. Our proposal is still not fully prepared because
> the merge of the two projects is still in progress, and I'm writing this
> email to check whether it's possible that we have a joint force to achieve
> the same goal. I believe it will be cool if we could do this together,
> although there will be a lot (more) work to do to make this happen.
>
> Please let me know your thoughts and let's have more discussions if you're
> also interested. Thanks.
>
> Best Regards,
> Yu
>
> [1] https://github.com/flink-extended/flink-remote-shuffle
> [2] https://github.com/alibaba/RemoteShuffleService
>
>
> On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 12:15, Jerry Shao  wrote:
>
> > Sure Felix, let me add you to the list.
> >
> > Best,
> > Jerry
> >
> > Felix Cheung  于2022年5月18日周三 11:59写道：
> >
> > > Same here, would love to see if I can help, Jerry.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:31 PM Saisai Shao 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks Weiwei, let me add you to the mentor list.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > > Weiwei Yang  于2022年5月17日周二 12:18写道：
> > > >
> > > > > +1
> > > > > This is an interesting project, I'd be happy to help the project's
> > > > > incubation process.
> > > > > Let me know if you need my help, Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 8:09 PM Saisai Shao <
> sai.sai.s...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Got it, thanks a lot Justin.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 10:59写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The new project name doesn’t need to be a registered trademark,
> > but
> > > > you
> > > > > > > would still need to pick a name that is now likely to have any
> > > > > trademark
> > > > > > > issues.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The project may want to get the ASF to register the mark at a
> > later
> > > > > date,
> > > > > > > but it wold be best to talk abut that on the trademarks@ list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > Justin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > -
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Yu Li]

Hi Jerry,

Good to see the proposal for incubating a uniform remote shuffle service.
Coincidently, we are preparing an incubating proposal for the same
direction based on two open source projects Alibaba is driving [1] [2], and
I'm the champion for that. Our proposal is still not fully prepared because
the merge of the two projects is still in progress, and I'm writing this
email to check whether it's possible that we have a joint force to achieve
the same goal. I believe it will be cool if we could do this together,
although there will be a lot (more) work to do to make this happen.

Please let me know your thoughts and let's have more discussions if you're
also interested. Thanks.

Best Regards,
Yu

[1] https://github.com/flink-extended/flink-remote-shuffle
[2] https://github.com/alibaba/RemoteShuffleService


On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 12:15, Jerry Shao  wrote:

> Sure Felix, let me add you to the list.
>
> Best,
> Jerry
>
> Felix Cheung  于2022年5月18日周三 11:59写道：
>
> > Same here, would love to see if I can help, Jerry.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:31 PM Saisai Shao 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Weiwei, let me add you to the mentor list.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > Weiwei Yang  于2022年5月17日周二 12:18写道：
> > >
> > > > +1
> > > > This is an interesting project, I'd be happy to help the project's
> > > > incubation process.
> > > > Let me know if you need my help, Thanks
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 8:09 PM Saisai Shao 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Got it, thanks a lot Justin.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > > > Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 10:59写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The new project name doesn’t need to be a registered trademark,
> but
> > > you
> > > > > > would still need to pick a name that is now likely to have any
> > > > trademark
> > > > > > issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The project may want to get the ASF to register the mark at a
> later
> > > > date,
> > > > > > but it wold be best to talk abut that on the trademarks@ list.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > Justin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > -
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Jerry Shao]

Sure Felix, let me add you to the list.

Best,
Jerry

Felix Cheung  于2022年5月18日周三 11:59写道：

> Same here, would love to see if I can help, Jerry.
>
>
> On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:31 PM Saisai Shao 
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Weiwei, let me add you to the mentor list.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jerry
> >
> > Weiwei Yang  于2022年5月17日周二 12:18写道：
> >
> > > +1
> > > This is an interesting project, I'd be happy to help the project's
> > > incubation process.
> > > Let me know if you need my help, Thanks
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 8:09 PM Saisai Shao 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Got it, thanks a lot Justin.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > > > Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 10:59写道：
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > The new project name doesn’t need to be a registered trademark, but
> > you
> > > > > would still need to pick a name that is now likely to have any
> > > trademark
> > > > > issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > The project may want to get the ASF to register the mark at a later
> > > date,
> > > > > but it wold be best to talk abut that on the trademarks@ list.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > Justin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> -
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Felix Cheung]

Same here, would love to see if I can help, Jerry.


On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:31 PM Saisai Shao  wrote:

> Thanks Weiwei, let me add you to the mentor list.
>
> Best regards,
> Jerry
>
> Weiwei Yang  于2022年5月17日周二 12:18写道：
>
> > +1
> > This is an interesting project, I'd be happy to help the project's
> > incubation process.
> > Let me know if you need my help, Thanks
> >
> > On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 8:09 PM Saisai Shao 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Got it, thanks a lot Justin.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 10:59写道：
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > The new project name doesn’t need to be a registered trademark, but
> you
> > > > would still need to pick a name that is now likely to have any
> > trademark
> > > > issues.
> > > >
> > > > The project may want to get the ASF to register the mark at a later
> > date,
> > > > but it wold be best to talk abut that on the trademarks@ list.
> > > >
> > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > Justin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Jerry Shao]

Thanks Justin,

Let me talk to trademarks@ first.

Best,
Jerry

Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 21:12写道：

> Hi,
>
> I’d run that past trademarks@ mailing list. It might be like calling your
> fast food restaurant McDoogles and hoping no-one notices the name is
> similar to McDonalds.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

I’d run that past trademarks@ mailing list. It might be like calling your fast 
food restaurant McDoogles and hoping no-one notices the name is similar to 
McDonalds.

Kind Regards,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Jerry Shao]

Hi,

We discussed internally and proposed a new name "flamestorm" as a
replacement.
If the community thinks this name "flamestorm" is OK, our proposal will go
with this new name.

Best regards,
Jerry


below is the search result for "flamestorm"
-
Github:
Search for Flamestorm returns 0 results
https://github.com/search?q=flamestorm

SF.net:
Search for Flamestorm returns 0 results
https://sourceforge.net/directory/os:mac/freshness:recently-updated/?q=Flamestorm

openhub.net
Search for Flamestorm returns 0 results
https://www.openhub.net/p?ref=homepage=Flamestorm

Google code:
Search for Flamestorm returns 0 results
https://opensource.google/projects?q=flamestorm


USPTO:
There are no effective results, the first page results only contain keyword
'flame'
https://search.uspto.gov/search?affiliate=web-sdmg-uspto.gov_by==flamestorm
And I search for 'Flamestorm software' returns 0 result
https://search.uspto.gov/search?affiliate=web-sdmg-uspto.gov_by==framestorm+software

Trademarkia:
Search for Flamestorm returns 0 results
https://www.trademarkia.com/trademarks-search.aspx?tn=flamestorm

EU Organization for Harmonization
Search for Flamestorm returns 0 results
https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#basic/1+1+1+1/flamestorm

Google:
https://www.google.com/search?q=flamestorm
Bing:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=flamestorm
Yahoo
https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=flamestorm=1
Stackoverflow
https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=flamestorm

There are no results about software

Saisai Shao  于2022年5月17日周二 13:31写道：

> Thanks Weiwei, let me add you to the mentor list.
>
> Best regards,
> Jerry
>
> Weiwei Yang  于2022年5月17日周二 12:18写道：
>
>> +1
>> This is an interesting project, I'd be happy to help the project's
>> incubation process.
>> Let me know if you need my help, Thanks
>>
>> On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 8:09 PM Saisai Shao 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Got it, thanks a lot Justin.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Jerry
>> >
>> > Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 10:59写道：
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > The new project name doesn’t need to be a registered trademark, but
>> you
>> > > would still need to pick a name that is now likely to have any
>> trademark
>> > > issues.
>> > >
>> > > The project may want to get the ASF to register the mark at a later
>> date,
>> > > but it wold be best to talk abut that on the trademarks@ list.
>> > >
>> > > Kind Regards,
>> > > Justin
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Saisai Shao]

Thanks Weiwei, let me add you to the mentor list.

Best regards,
Jerry

Weiwei Yang  于2022年5月17日周二 12:18写道：

> +1
> This is an interesting project, I'd be happy to help the project's
> incubation process.
> Let me know if you need my help, Thanks
>
> On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 8:09 PM Saisai Shao 
> wrote:
>
> > Got it, thanks a lot Justin.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jerry
> >
> > Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 10:59写道：
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > The new project name doesn’t need to be a registered trademark, but you
> > > would still need to pick a name that is now likely to have any
> trademark
> > > issues.
> > >
> > > The project may want to get the ASF to register the mark at a later
> date,
> > > but it wold be best to talk abut that on the trademarks@ list.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Justin
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Weiwei Yang]

+1
This is an interesting project, I'd be happy to help the project's
incubation process.
Let me know if you need my help, Thanks

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 8:09 PM Saisai Shao  wrote:

> Got it, thanks a lot Justin.
>
> Best regards,
> Jerry
>
> Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 10:59写道：
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > The new project name doesn’t need to be a registered trademark, but you
> > would still need to pick a name that is now likely to have any trademark
> > issues.
> >
> > The project may want to get the ASF to register the mark at a later date,
> > but it wold be best to talk abut that on the trademarks@ list.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Justin
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Saisai Shao]

Got it, thanks a lot Justin.

Best regards,
Jerry

Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 10:59写道：

> Hi,
>
> The new project name doesn’t need to be a registered trademark, but you
> would still need to pick a name that is now likely to have any trademark
> issues.
>
> The project may want to get the ASF to register the mark at a later date,
> but it wold be best to talk abut that on the trademarks@ list.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

The new project name doesn’t need to be a registered trademark, but you would 
still need to pick a name that is now likely to have any trademark issues.

The project may want to get the ASF to register the mark at a later date, but 
it wold be best to talk abut that on the trademarks@ list. 

Kind Regards,
Justin


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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Saisai Shao]

Hi Daniel and Justin，

Sorry about one more questions. Seems like the name "firestorm" has some
conflicts in USPTO searching and we only submitted China trademark
registration.

So about a new name, do we need to register this new "name" before donation
(and transfer to ASF before graduation),  or just a new suitable name
(without registration) is enough for incubation?

Best regards,
Jerry

Saisai Shao  于2022年5月17日周二 10:01写道：

> Thanks Daniel and Justin, let me resolve the naming issue first.
>
> Best regards,
> Jerry
>
> Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 09:52写道：
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> > Thanks for your reply. The trademark "firestorm" as a software has
>> already
>> > been submitted the registration by Tencent in China, I'm not sure is
>> that
>> > enough or not.
>>
>> If that trademark is approved it would need to be transferred to the ASF
>> before graduation. Even f it was approved there may still be an issue with
>> the name in the USA or other countries.
>>
>> > Is there any guidance in ASF about naming or trademark things? I will
>> > consult this to our company lawyer.
>>
>> Please see [1].
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Justin
>>
>> 1. https://incubator.apache.org/guides/names.html
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Saisai Shao]

Thanks Daniel and Justin, let me resolve the naming issue first.

Best regards,
Jerry

Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 09:52写道：

> Hi,
>
> > Thanks for your reply. The trademark "firestorm" as a software has
> already
> > been submitted the registration by Tencent in China, I'm not sure is that
> > enough or not.
>
> If that trademark is approved it would need to be transferred to the ASF
> before graduation. Even f it was approved there may still be an issue with
> the name in the USA or other countries.
>
> > Is there any guidance in ASF about naming or trademark things? I will
> > consult this to our company lawyer.
>
> Please see [1].
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://incubator.apache.org/guides/names.html
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Xun Liu]

Hi,

+1 (binding for me)

As stated in the proposal,
Shuffle is a critical part of the distributed computing engine for
exchanging data between distributed tasks,
and it is important to maintain high performance and continuous stable
operation,
issues that often plague users and developers of big data systems.

When I was asked to be a mentor for Firestorm,
we were excited to learn that Tencent was working to get Firestorm into the
apache incubator for better development,
because Firestorm was a system that had been tested in Tencent's production
environment,
and we prepared the proposal with multiple big data As we prepared our
proposal,
we discussed with several Big Data companies both online and offline about
their respective problems with the Shuffle phase of the distributed system,
and we received good and positive feedback.

We believe that Firestorm can solve real problems and will be well
supported by Big Data users and developers.
I believe that Firestorm can better enrich the apache community's ecosystem.

Best Regards,
Xun Liu


On Tue, May 17, 2022 at 5:58 AM Justin Mclean 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Sounds like an interesting project. I also think the name may be
> problematic from a trademark point of view. It might be best to do a
> trademark search as see if there are any issues. Changing the name is
> difficult, but is much much harder if it needs to be done later.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

> Thanks for your reply. The trademark "firestorm" as a software has already
> been submitted the registration by Tencent in China, I'm not sure is that
> enough or not.

If that trademark is approved it would need to be transferred to the ASF before 
graduation. Even f it was approved there may still be an issue with the name in 
the USA or other countries.

> Is there any guidance in ASF about naming or trademark things? I will
> consult this to our company lawyer.

Please see [1].

Kind Regards,
Justin

1. https://incubator.apache.org/guides/names.html
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Daniel Widdis]

I trust your lawyer will know better than I will about the trademark.  I simply 
entered "firestorm software" into a search engine and got a product that's not 
yours, available since at least July 2017. 

This site [1] has the general naming guidance and the existence of the other 
software may be of concern with some of the considerations.

1 - https://infra.apache.org/project-names.html


On 5/16/22, 6:43 PM, "Saisai Shao"  wrote:

Hi Daniel and Justin,

Thanks for your reply. The trademark "firestorm" as a software has already
been submitted the registration by Tencent in China, I'm not sure is that
enough or not.

Is there any guidance in ASF about naming or trademark things? I will
consult this to our company lawyer.

Thanks
Jerry

Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 05:59写道：

> Hi,
>
> Sounds like an interesting project. I also think the name may be
> problematic from a trademark point of view. It might be best to do a
> trademark search as see if there are any issues. Changing the name is
> difficult, but is much much harder if it needs to be done later.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>



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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Saisai Shao]

Hi Daniel and Justin,

Thanks for your reply. The trademark "firestorm" as a software has already
been submitted the registration by Tencent in China, I'm not sure is that
enough or not.

Is there any guidance in ASF about naming or trademark things? I will
consult this to our company lawyer.

Thanks
Jerry

Justin Mclean  于2022年5月17日周二 05:59写道：

> Hi,
>
> Sounds like an interesting project. I also think the name may be
> problematic from a trademark point of view. It might be best to do a
> trademark search as see if there are any issues. Changing the name is
> difficult, but is much much harder if it needs to be done later.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Justin Mclean]

Hi,

Sounds like an interesting project. I also think the name may be problematic 
from a trademark point of view. It might be best to do a trademark search as 
see if there are any issues. Changing the name is difficult, but is much much 
harder if it needs to be done later.  

Kind Regards,
Justin
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Daniel B. Widdis]

+0.9 (non-binding).

I think the project is a great idea.  I think the name is going to run into
a lot of issues with trademarks and pre-existing software products and
would recommend the project consider a new name before incubating.

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 6:44 AM Jerry Shao  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We would like to propose Firestorm[1] as a new Apache incubator project,
> you can find the proposal here [2] for more details.
>
> Firestorm is a high performance, general purpose Remote Shuffle Service for
> distributed compute engines like Apache Spark
> , Apache
> Hadoop MapReduce , Apache Flink
>  and so on. We are aiming to make Firestorm a
> universal shuffle service for distributed compute engines.
>
> Shuffle is the key part for a distributed compute engine to exchange the
> data between distributed tasks, the performance and stability of shuffle
> will directly affect the whole job. Current “local file pull-like shuffle
> style” has several limitations:
>
>1. Current shuffle is hard to support super large workloads, especially
>in a high load environment, the major problem is IO problem (random
> disk IO
>issue, network congestion and timeout).
>2. Current shuffle is hard to deploy on the disaggregated compute
>storage environment, as disk capacity is quite limited on compute nodes.
>3. The constraint of storing shuffle data locally makes it hard to scale
>elastically.
>
> Remote Shuffle Service is the key technology for enterprises to build big
> data platforms, to expand big data applications to disaggregated,
> online-offline hybrid environments, and to solve above problems.
>
> The implementation of Remote Shuffle Service -  “Firestorm”  - is heavily
> adopted in Tencent, and shows its advantages in production. Other
> enterprises also adopted or prepared to adopt Firestorm in their
> environments.
>
> Firestorm’s key idea is brought from Salfish shuffle
> <
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262241541_Sailfish_a_framework_for_large_scale_data_processing
> >,
> it has several key design goals:
>
>1. High performance. Firestorm’s performance is close enough to local
>file based shuffle style for small workloads. For large workloads, it is
>far better than the current shuffle style.
>2. Fault tolerance. Firestorm provides high availability for Coordinated
>nodes, and failover for Shuffle nodes.
>3. Pluggable. Firestorm is highly pluggable, which could be suited to
>different compute engines, different backend storages, and different
>wire-protocols.
>
> We believe that Firestorm project will provide the great value for the
> community if it is accepted by the Apache incubator.
>
> I will help this project as champion and many thanks to the 3 mentors:
>
>- Junping du (junping...@apache.org)
>- Xun liu (liu...@apache.org)
>- Zhankun Tang (zt...@apache.org)
>
>
> [1] https://github.com/Tencent/Firestorm
> [2]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/FirestormProposal
>
> Best regards,
> Jerry
>


-- 
Dan Widdis

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[41108453]

+1， good luck！





-- Original --
From: Jerry Shao https://spark.apache.org/;, Apache
Hadoop MapReduce 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[谭中意]

+1。

On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:13 PM Goson zhang  wrote:

> +1
> Good luck!
>
>
> Jerry Shao  于2022年5月16日周一 21:44写道：
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We would like to propose Firestorm[1] as a new Apache incubator project,
> > you can find the proposal here [2] for more details.
> >
> > Firestorm is a high performance, general purpose Remote Shuffle Service
> for
> > distributed compute engines like Apache Spark
> > , Apache
> > Hadoop MapReduce , Apache Flink
> >  and so on. We are aiming to make Firestorm a
> > universal shuffle service for distributed compute engines.
> >
> > Shuffle is the key part for a distributed compute engine to exchange the
> > data between distributed tasks, the performance and stability of shuffle
> > will directly affect the whole job. Current “local file pull-like shuffle
> > style” has several limitations:
> >
> >1. Current shuffle is hard to support super large workloads,
> especially
> >in a high load environment, the major problem is IO problem (random
> > disk IO
> >issue, network congestion and timeout).
> >2. Current shuffle is hard to deploy on the disaggregated compute
> >storage environment, as disk capacity is quite limited on compute
> nodes.
> >3. The constraint of storing shuffle data locally makes it hard to
> scale
> >elastically.
> >
> > Remote Shuffle Service is the key technology for enterprises to build big
> > data platforms, to expand big data applications to disaggregated,
> > online-offline hybrid environments, and to solve above problems.
> >
> > The implementation of Remote Shuffle Service -  “Firestorm”  - is heavily
> > adopted in Tencent, and shows its advantages in production. Other
> > enterprises also adopted or prepared to adopt Firestorm in their
> > environments.
> >
> > Firestorm’s key idea is brought from Salfish shuffle
> > <
> >
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262241541_Sailfish_a_framework_for_large_scale_data_processing
> > >,
> > it has several key design goals:
> >
> >1. High performance. Firestorm’s performance is close enough to local
> >file based shuffle style for small workloads. For large workloads, it
> is
> >far better than the current shuffle style.
> >2. Fault tolerance. Firestorm provides high availability for
> Coordinated
> >nodes, and failover for Shuffle nodes.
> >3. Pluggable. Firestorm is highly pluggable, which could be suited to
> >different compute engines, different backend storages, and different
> >wire-protocols.
> >
> > We believe that Firestorm project will provide the great value for the
> > community if it is accepted by the Apache incubator.
> >
> > I will help this project as champion and many thanks to the 3 mentors:
> >
> >- Junping du (junping...@apache.org)
> >- Xun liu (liu...@apache.org)
> >- Zhankun Tang (zt...@apache.org)
> >
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/Tencent/Firestorm
> > [2]
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/FirestormProposal
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jerry
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Goson zhang]

+1
Good luck!


Jerry Shao  于2022年5月16日周一 21:44写道：

> Hi all,
>
> We would like to propose Firestorm[1] as a new Apache incubator project,
> you can find the proposal here [2] for more details.
>
> Firestorm is a high performance, general purpose Remote Shuffle Service for
> distributed compute engines like Apache Spark
> , Apache
> Hadoop MapReduce , Apache Flink
>  and so on. We are aiming to make Firestorm a
> universal shuffle service for distributed compute engines.
>
> Shuffle is the key part for a distributed compute engine to exchange the
> data between distributed tasks, the performance and stability of shuffle
> will directly affect the whole job. Current “local file pull-like shuffle
> style” has several limitations:
>
>1. Current shuffle is hard to support super large workloads, especially
>in a high load environment, the major problem is IO problem (random
> disk IO
>issue, network congestion and timeout).
>2. Current shuffle is hard to deploy on the disaggregated compute
>storage environment, as disk capacity is quite limited on compute nodes.
>3. The constraint of storing shuffle data locally makes it hard to scale
>elastically.
>
> Remote Shuffle Service is the key technology for enterprises to build big
> data platforms, to expand big data applications to disaggregated,
> online-offline hybrid environments, and to solve above problems.
>
> The implementation of Remote Shuffle Service -  “Firestorm”  - is heavily
> adopted in Tencent, and shows its advantages in production. Other
> enterprises also adopted or prepared to adopt Firestorm in their
> environments.
>
> Firestorm’s key idea is brought from Salfish shuffle
> <
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262241541_Sailfish_a_framework_for_large_scale_data_processing
> >,
> it has several key design goals:
>
>1. High performance. Firestorm’s performance is close enough to local
>file based shuffle style for small workloads. For large workloads, it is
>far better than the current shuffle style.
>2. Fault tolerance. Firestorm provides high availability for Coordinated
>nodes, and failover for Shuffle nodes.
>3. Pluggable. Firestorm is highly pluggable, which could be suited to
>different compute engines, different backend storages, and different
>wire-protocols.
>
> We believe that Firestorm project will provide the great value for the
> community if it is accepted by the Apache incubator.
>
> I will help this project as champion and many thanks to the 3 mentors:
>
>- Junping du (junping...@apache.org)
>- Xun liu (liu...@apache.org)
>- Zhankun Tang (zt...@apache.org)
>
>
> [1] https://github.com/Tencent/Firestorm
> [2]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/FirestormProposal
>
> Best regards,
> Jerry
>

[DISCUSSION] Incubating Proposal of Firestorm

[Jerry Shao]

Hi all,

We would like to propose Firestorm[1] as a new Apache incubator project,
you can find the proposal here [2] for more details.

Firestorm is a high performance, general purpose Remote Shuffle Service for
distributed compute engines like Apache Spark
, Apache
Hadoop MapReduce , Apache Flink
 and so on. We are aiming to make Firestorm a
universal shuffle service for distributed compute engines.

Shuffle is the key part for a distributed compute engine to exchange the
data between distributed tasks, the performance and stability of shuffle
will directly affect the whole job. Current “local file pull-like shuffle
style” has several limitations:

   1. Current shuffle is hard to support super large workloads, especially
   in a high load environment, the major problem is IO problem (random disk IO
   issue, network congestion and timeout).
   2. Current shuffle is hard to deploy on the disaggregated compute
   storage environment, as disk capacity is quite limited on compute nodes.
   3. The constraint of storing shuffle data locally makes it hard to scale
   elastically.

Remote Shuffle Service is the key technology for enterprises to build big
data platforms, to expand big data applications to disaggregated,
online-offline hybrid environments, and to solve above problems.

The implementation of Remote Shuffle Service -  “Firestorm”  - is heavily
adopted in Tencent, and shows its advantages in production. Other
enterprises also adopted or prepared to adopt Firestorm in their
environments.

Firestorm’s key idea is brought from Salfish shuffle
,
it has several key design goals:

   1. High performance. Firestorm’s performance is close enough to local
   file based shuffle style for small workloads. For large workloads, it is
   far better than the current shuffle style.
   2. Fault tolerance. Firestorm provides high availability for Coordinated
   nodes, and failover for Shuffle nodes.
   3. Pluggable. Firestorm is highly pluggable, which could be suited to
   different compute engines, different backend storages, and different
   wire-protocols.

We believe that Firestorm project will provide the great value for the
community if it is accepted by the Apache incubator.

I will help this project as champion and many thanks to the 3 mentors:

   - Junping du (junping...@apache.org)
   - Xun liu (liu...@apache.org)
   - Zhankun Tang (zt...@apache.org)


[1] https://github.com/Tencent/Firestorm
[2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/FirestormProposal

Best regards,
Jerry