Hey, at least nobody is shouting at each other...this is progress Sent from my iPhone
> On 13 Dec 2018, at 22:31, Joe Marougi <jmaro...@gmail.com> wrote: > > With all due respect brother, it appears you’re only citing a portion of the > definition of a racist to which Denise is clearly aligned with the other > portion. I’m referring to the portion before the comma and you only > mentioned the pet after the comma. Here’s the definition: > > a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of > other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another. > > Even if you want to “prove in the court of law” that she’s not a racist based > on the technical definition, she’s clearly an insensitive bully who doesn’t > have an ounce of humility in her tone regardless of whether or not her > opinion is accurate. > > If anyone was to take her tone with an opposing view they’d be seen as a > grand wizard level white supremist and you all know it. > > I was gonna drop this but felt I had to reply based on Kent’s reply. > > >> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 2:19 PM kent williams <chaircrus...@gmail.com> wrote: >> As the moderator let me weigh in. >> >> 1) I've met and hung out briefly with Denise and participated in some >> substantive on-line discussions with her. She has a PHD in Ethnomusicology >> from Indiana University, and they don't give those away in boxes of Cracker >> Jacks. As with the 313 list's most famous troll, Thomas Cox, it can be easy >> to think she's more hostile than she actually intends to be. Of course an >> e-mail list is a 'cool' medium, meaning you have to work extra hard to have >> the right tone in your posts, since all readers on the other side of the >> world have to go on is your words. >> >> 2) Sometimes, saying nothing if all you have is anger is the better option. >> If someone says something that makes you angry, wait until you're not angry >> to respond. That's how flame wars get started: Too much emotion, not enough >> reflection. >> >> 3) Since I've been on the Internet before there was a commercial internet, I >> haven't stepped into these arguments in part because they have not risen to >> what I would regard as an alarming level of hostility. If you think Joe & >> Denise are out of order, they're having a picnic by the sea compared to the >> flame wars of old. If they bother you, they bother you, and you're entitled >> to your opinion. But I'm not going to tone police anyone unless they get >> genuinely hurtful or threatening. >> >> 4) If you're going to unsubscribe, unsubscribe. Announcing you're >> unsubscribing from the list is every bit as off topic as getting into >> personal battles in what's meant to be a forum about music. I'd rather you >> didn't unsubscribe, but I'd also rather you didn't feel compelled to tell >> everyone about it. >> >> 5) I will say one thing: Joe calling Denise racist just seems silly to me. >> Racism is a belief that one's own race is superior to another. I don't >> think that's a valid reading of what she says. To quote Harry Allen (Public >> Enemy's official Media Assassin): >> >> "Racism has a sole, functional expression: White supremacy. Racism is not >> historical. It’s futuristic. It is not going away. It is being refined. It >> is weaponized through deceit, secrecy, and violence, in that order. Its >> chief tools are not clubs, bullets, or nooses, but words." >> >> In other words: To call someone speaking out against white supremacy racist >> is a category error. Black people might dislike or even hate white people, >> but they are on the losing side of a power relationship. In fact, they live >> within a system where they are consciously and systematically disadvantaged. >> Their racism has no effective expression, which means that it has no >> detectable sting for white people. >> >> Allen goes on with this: "...white people who say they are not racists, or >> that they are against racism, should be clearing race from the paths of >> Black people, like snowplows going through highway drifts. By doing nothing, >> or doing nothing effective, they cast racist suspicion on themselves through >> their inertness." >> >> I think what Denise is trying to do is just that: be an ally, not center >> herself, and clearing race from the paths of Black people. You can question >> how successful she is with that, and you can question whether this is the >> forum for those expressions. You can argue with her tone if you like -- >> good luck with that. >> >> But calling her racist is silly. >> >> >> >>> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 3:29 PM Rasputin <ras...@drehmoment.org> wrote: >>> They are doing white-washing, like the taz >>> (http://www.taz.de/Red-Bulls-Music-Academy/!5541432/) wrote. >>> >>> PS: Long time lurker >>> PPS: Im glad, that the list is still alive! >>> >>> >>>> Am 13.12.18 um 18:15 schrieb Juho Hietala: >>>> Wasn’t there a Moodymann album put out by Toyota on the Scion label in >>>> 2012 or something? ;) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 13 Dec 2018, at 17:52, Benn Glazier <b...@bennglazier.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Well there's no denying that the Red Bull logo is a license to print >>>>> money these days; it's also one to spend money. The focus is on the brand >>>>> as opposed to the product and their brand alignment is with anything that >>>>> could be deemed edgy, from skateboarding to space diving. >>>>> >>>>> I guess there's a couple of ways to look at it... their engagement can >>>>> aid with the promotion of artists, event and activities and it has the >>>>> potential to kick start artists careers due to the collaboration process >>>>> and unlocking doors. They've got their record label as well - no artists >>>>> I'm familiar with, to be honest. >>>>> >>>>> On the flipside, it's nothing more than brand positioning and posturing. >>>>> Sponsor activities that are deemed cool per se and people will buy our >>>>> drinks. They could walk away from RBMA at any time, or if they thought >>>>> that electronic country and western trance was the next big thing then >>>>> they just adjust their musical charter to follow what's popular or in >>>>> turn lead and drive what will be popular. Worth noting, RB dominate the >>>>> category they play in today and it would be hard to see anyone dislodging >>>>> them from that mantle any time soon. >>>>> >>>>> So yeah, they're a commercial outfit, they made the measly sum of about >>>>> €6.5b in revenue last year. To put that into perspective for a minute, >>>>> that's about one-fifth of what Coca-Cola did last year. Yes, they have >>>>> their finger in many sub-culture pies, but we all can view it whichever >>>>> way we wish. >>>>> >>>>> Also, they could also not be doing any of this... and if Mike fucks with >>>>> RB, Moody fucks with RB, do you think RB actually care? With an >>>>> oversimplified view It will just drive more eyeballs to their youtube >>>>> videos, which at the end of the day is exactly what they want. >>>>> >>>>> BG >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 13 Dec 2018 at 10:16 Martin Dust <mar...@dustscience.com> wrote: >>>>>> > What started it all? Red Bull simply wanted to develop a way of >>>>>> > fostering the discourse of underground music and dance culture. >>>>>> >>>>>> First time I’ve heard called that. >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> b...@bennglazier.com >>>>> WWW.BENNGLAZIER.COM >>>>
