As the moderator let me weigh in. 1) I've met and hung out briefly with Denise and participated in some substantive on-line discussions with her. She has a PHD in Ethnomusicology from Indiana University, and they don't give those away in boxes of Cracker Jacks. As with the 313 list's most famous troll, Thomas Cox, it can be easy to think she's more hostile than she actually intends to be. Of course an e-mail list is a 'cool' medium, meaning you have to work extra hard to have the right tone in your posts, since all readers on the other side of the world have to go on is your words.
2) Sometimes, saying nothing if all you have is anger is the better option. If someone says something that makes you angry, wait until you're not angry to respond. That's how flame wars get started: Too much emotion, not enough reflection. 3) Since I've been on the Internet before there was a commercial internet, I haven't stepped into these arguments in part because they have not risen to what I would regard as an alarming level of hostility. If you think Joe & Denise are out of order, they're having a picnic by the sea compared to the flame wars of old. If they bother you, they bother you, and you're entitled to your opinion. But I'm not going to tone police anyone unless they get genuinely hurtful or threatening. 4) If you're going to unsubscribe, unsubscribe. Announcing you're unsubscribing from the list is every bit as off topic as getting into personal battles in what's meant to be a forum about music. I'd rather you didn't unsubscribe, but I'd also rather you didn't feel compelled to tell everyone about it. 5) I will say one thing: Joe calling Denise racist just seems silly to me. Racism is a belief that one's own race is superior to another. I don't think that's a valid reading of what she says. To quote Harry Allen (Public Enemy's official Media Assassin): "Racism has a sole, functional expression: White supremacy. Racism is not historical. It’s *futuristic*. It is not going away. It is being *refined*. It is weaponized through *deceit*, *secrecy*, and *violence*, in that order. Its chief tools are not clubs, bullets, or nooses, but *words*." In other words: To call someone speaking out against white supremacy racist is a category error. Black people might dislike or even hate white people, but they are on the losing side of a power relationship. In fact, they live within a system where they are consciously and systematically disadvantaged. Their racism has no effective expression, which means that it has no detectable sting for white people. Allen goes on with this: "...white people who say they are not racists, or that they are against racism, should be clearing race from the paths of Black people, like snowplows going through highway drifts. By doing nothing, or doing nothing effective, they cast racist suspicion on themselves through their inertness." I think what Denise is trying to do is just that: be an ally, not center herself, and clearing race from the paths of Black people. You can question how successful she is with that, and you can question whether this is the forum for those expressions. You can argue with her tone if you like -- good luck with that. But calling her racist is silly. On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 3:29 PM Rasputin <[email protected]> wrote: > They are doing white-washing, like the taz ( > http://www.taz.de/Red-Bulls-Music-Academy/!5541432/) wrote. > > PS: Long time lurker > PPS: Im glad, that the list is still alive! > > Am 13.12.18 um 18:15 schrieb Juho Hietala: > > Wasn’t there a Moodymann album put out by Toyota on the Scion label in > 2012 or something? ;) > > > > On 13 Dec 2018, at 17:52, Benn Glazier <[email protected]> wrote: > > Well there's no denying that the Red Bull logo is a license to print money > these days; it's also one to spend money. The focus is on the brand as > opposed to the product and their brand alignment is with anything that > could be deemed edgy, from skateboarding to space diving. > > I guess there's a couple of ways to look at it... their engagement can > aid with the promotion of artists, event and activities and it has the > potential to kick start artists careers due to the collaboration process > and unlocking doors. They've got their record label as well - no artists > I'm familiar with, to be honest. > > On the flipside, it's nothing more than brand positioning and posturing. > Sponsor activities that are deemed cool per se and people will buy our > drinks. They could walk away from RBMA at any time, or if they thought > that electronic country and western trance was the next big thing then they > just adjust their musical charter to follow what's popular or in turn lead > and drive what will be popular. Worth noting, RB dominate the category they > play in today and it would be hard to see anyone dislodging them from that > mantle any time soon. > > So yeah, they're a commercial outfit, they made the measly sum of about > €6.5b in revenue last year. To put that into perspective for a minute, > that's about one-fifth of what Coca-Cola did last year. Yes, they have > their finger in many sub-culture pies, but we all can view it whichever way > we wish. > > Also, they could also not be doing any of this... and if Mike fucks with > RB, Moody fucks with RB, do you think RB actually care? With an > oversimplified view It will just drive more eyeballs to their youtube > videos, which at the end of the day is exactly what they want. > > BG > > > > > On Thu, 13 Dec 2018 at 10:16 Martin Dust <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > What started it all? Red Bull simply wanted to develop a way of >> fostering the discourse of underground music and dance culture. >> >> First time I’ve heard called that. > > -- > > -- > [email protected] > WWW.BENNGLAZIER.COM <http://www.bennglazier.com/> > > >
