On that point, we tell them that it is not our responsibility to track their specific usage. We tell them that their are routers like the Fortigate which can track usage, but that we do not support those devices. I tell them that I think the new Torch router does it too, but that we have no experience with these devices. "The only way that we track which websites are visited and what you are doing on the Internet is with a warrant or an order from the Department of Justice". We stand behind our usage tracking, and if they do not want to pay the bill then they can find another provider. We have lost two or three customers over four years who refuse to pay, and it usually isn't worth sending those ones to collections. We just go and collect our equipment and write it off as bad debt.
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > That's an interesting point. > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Stefan Englhardt" <s...@genias.net> > To: af@afmug.com; "Wireless Administrator" <wirel...@htn.net> > Sent: 6/21/2017 3:18:07 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? > > We fade out our usage based plans. *Every* single customer who had to pay >> surplus makes us a lot of work. Calls from each single family member, what >> IP is this. Why cant you tell me what x.y.z.w is. I dont use Akamai ... >> You have to take care there is no angry escalating dispute for a view >> Euros. I am sure this service times cost us more money than the customers >> had to pay surplus. We have to do flat pricing. >> >> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:59:41 +0000 >> "Wireless Administrator" <wirel...@htn.net> wrote: >> >>> This industry is in trouble. Nobody wants usage based billing. >>> Customers don’t want it for obvious reasons. ISP’s are afraid to implement >>> it for fear of losing customers. If you lose money on an account is it >>> really an asset to your business? I feel that the Large ISP’s have already >>> implemented Usage Based Rate Adjustment. They seem to have an automated >>> process to adjust rates that will force off the heavy users. Our industry >>> will not get respect until it asks for it. UBB or UBRA (New term I coined) >>> is the way …. >>> >>> >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka >>> Technologies >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:07 PM >>> To: Simon Westlake >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>> >>> >>> >>> Simon, >>> >>> But metered billing makes them think about what they are doing. Does >>> the baby need to be falling asleep watching a 4K movie? The best way I can >>> put it is renting an apartment with utilities included. If I'm renting an >>> apartment in FL with electric included, my AC is going to be set at 68 >>> 24/7. The cat will be very comfortable all day, why should I care. >>> However, if I'm paying for electric, the cat will have to deal with 78 >>> during the day and I may have to deal with 72 when I get home. >>> >>> Bandwidth prices are dropping for some, but for others it is still >>> expensive. Not to mention the HW costs to upgrade your network to handle >>> the higher bandwidth internally. >>> 4K tvs cost more to buy than 1080 or 720 TV's. Why should someone who >>> is willing to stream at 720 or pay for satellite TV, be forced to pay the >>> same as that guy that wants to watch in 4K. Why should a single person who >>> just needs dependable fast internet occasionally be force to pay the same >>> amount as the family with 6 kids and 30 devices? Why should the kid >>> willing to buy his game on a disc be forced to pay the same as the guy who >>> doesn't want to get up off the couch to change a disc? >>> Why is it we are the only industry that is expected to deliver a top >>> notch fast and reliable service at a single low price. The electric >>> company gets to charge per KW, the all you can eat buffet charges per >>> person, the cell phone company charges per device, cable/satellite charges >>> per box, hell even the streaming companies get to put limits on the number >>> of people that can stream per account. Why is it when we ask a heavy user >>> to pay their fair share all hell breaks lose and we are the greedy bastards? >>> >>> >>> -- Best regards, >>> Mark <mailto:m...@mailmt.com> mailto: >>> m...@mailmt.com >>> >>> Myakka Technologies, Inc. >>> <http://www.MyakkaTech.com> www.MyakkaTech.com >>> >>> Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life >>> <http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL> >>> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL >>> >>> Please Donate at Please Donate at <http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html> >>> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html >>> ------ >>> >>> Wednesday, June 21, 2017, 1:11:27 PM, you wrote: >>> >>> >>> The problem with metered billing is that it doesn't solve the problem. >>> The customer still purchased a game they want to download, or they have a >>> 4K TV they want to watch movies on. Most people are just going to look for >>> other options if they have to pay every time they try to use a device in >>> their household, and even if people are willing to pay, you still have to >>> be able to deliver enough service to them to give them the speeds they want. >>> >>> Until there is more spectrum available, I think DPI is a much better >>> solution.. you can deprioritize and shape things like game downloads, and >>> prioritize/shape their video streaming. I wish there was a better option, >>> but I really don't think implementing UBB is a solution to this problem. It >>> may give you more money to build up your network a bit, but it is poison to >>> most customer's ears, and it won't change their behavior that much unless >>> it's extremely painful for them financially. >>> >>> On 6/21/2017 10:51 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >>> >>> >>> metered billing.. wave of the future >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Adam Moffett < <mailto: >>> dmmoff...@gmail.com> dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I read some scary stuff the other day along a similar vein. >>> >>> Basically if you're selling 25mbps then you'll need a 4:1 >>> oversubscription ratio to support peak hours hi def streaming without >>> complaint. >>> As adoption of 4K video increases, that ratio will approach 1:1. You'll >>> have to either start supplying 100meg, or start billing for >>> consumption....or jack the price way up. >>> >>> They were looking only at streaming video trends, and didn't even >>> consider stuff like this. >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From: "Jeremy" < <mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com> jeremysmi...@gmail.com> >>> To: <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com >>> Sent: 6/21/2017 1:03:09 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>> >>> >>> Yeah, this sucks for us. Even worse, many of these games come out with >>> dual licenses so that you can play on Windows 10 or XB1 for the same >>> purchase. I bought a couple games and checked it out. It was amazing to >>> be able to just continue my Halo Wars right where I left off on my laptop, >>> but it was double the download size. This makes Forza potentially 200GB, >>> without DLC. When you are providing customers 300-500GB per month without >>> overages it makes heavy Xbox customers very quickly switch providers. I'm >>> not sure if that is a blessing or a curse. For now, it has not been a >>> gigantic churn issue for us, but the future of 4K content will likely hit >>> us all pretty hard. >>> My main issue with this is that purchasing a disc is not an option. I >>> initially bought discs, only to find that even after ripping them to the >>> hard drive, I have to walk down to the network closet to insert the disc. >>> Digitally purchased games can just be loaded from a menu, like all of the >>> hacked consoles. There is no option to 'upgrade' to a digital license if >>> you have purchased a disc. Also, if you own multiple Xbox One consoles >>> (say at home and at work), you can play any of your games on either >>> console, at any time, just not simultaneously. Discs are now useless to >>> me. The only way to get this digital license is to download it from the >>> Internet (or hack the console...not yet an option). This has been a big >>> bummer to heavy Xbox users when they get hit with massive overages, and >>> they usually switch to Comcast. >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke < <mailto: >>> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> This will be the new normal with the next generation Xbox, when many >>> customers start bringing them home... >>> <https://m.hardocp.com/news/2017/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_wi >>> ll_be_100gb_download> https://m.hardocp.com/news/201 >>> 7/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_will_be_100gb_download >>> >>> >>> -- Simon Westlake >>> Email: <mailto:simon@sonar.software> simon@sonar.software >>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA >>> --------------------------- >>> Sonar Software Inc >>> The future of ISP billing and OSS >>> <https://sonar.software> https://sonar.software >>> >>> >>> >>> >
