I agree with Rawat to some extent here. Music is not like mathematics where there are objective realities/facts. Opinions about the goodness or quality of music are always going to be subjective.
And Arijit's point about lack of music knowledge is hubristic (in my, admittedly not so humble opinion). Vishal http://vishal12.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/blue-music-review/ --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Arijit Debnath <arijit...@...> wrote: > > Listeners seem to be average..... sometimes... lack of knowledge of music > are evident in some posts... > > Rahman is musicians' composer... not an average listener's composer..... > > I think who doesn't like Mozart's or Rahman's composition..... they should > not open their mouth...it's their shame... > > Arijit > > 2009/9/11 ichord <purev...@...> > > > > > > > Would love to hear your thoughts Wiredbeats. As a musician and composer > > myself, I can clearly say with factual certainty that in terms of pure > > compositional and musical terms only for a bollywood soundtrack, Blue is a > > masterpiece. It's not a personal judgement but a fact. What I will agree to > > is that whether you like the album due to taste or preference or whatever, > > that is an opinion, not a fact. Blue's music is compositionally brilliant > > due to intelligent harmonies, complex chord progressions, intricate > > orchestral variations, depth of sound, and varied use of sounds and > > instruments all weaving together at once. If you want to call the music > > average because you don't like that type of music, fine, but that is only an > > opinion due to preference, not because the music itself is just run of the > > mill. > > > > A lot of people don't like Mozart's music, but the music is not average by > > any means.....it's intelligent and brilliant on an objective scale. > > > > > > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com <arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com>, > > wiredbeats <wiredbeats@> wrote: > > > > > > fastastically written, some very valid points in here.i have some > > thoughts. Will type them out later > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:06 IST V S Rawat wrote: > > > > > > >On 9/11/2009 6:56 PM India Time, _ichord_ wrote: > > > > > > > >> I am hearing the words mediocre and average being thrown around in > > > >> some places to describe Blue's music in some reviews. Guys, how can > > > >> such brilliant work be average? > > > > > > > >It is a person's personal judgment whether a work is brilliant. > > > > > > > >Similarly, it is some other person's personal judgment whether a work is > > > > > > not brilliant, and is mediocre, below average. > > > > > > > >> The depth of compositions and > > > >> intricate orchestration and arrangements is anything BUT average or > > > >> below. Even saying above average is a huge understatement. > > > > > > > >You started with "lyrics are said to be bad", then you take a switch to > > > >"music is good" to say that "thus, lyrics also have to be good". see for > > > > > >yourself. It is not really logical line of thinking. > > > > > > > >"depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements" is > > > >one aspect of the song, and that may be brilliant. Similarly, words/ > > > >lyrics are another a different aspect of the song and they may be > > > >mediocre/ below average while other aspects of songs are brilliant. One > > > >part being great doesn't make an entire song great. One part being > > > >wanting doesn't make overall song lacking. > > > > > > > >For example, in recent times, chak de india's song kuch kariye had such > > > >lovely, heart touching, earthly lyrics by an unknown "Jaideep Sahni" > > > >that would do even a Gulzar or Ghalib or Meer proud, but the music, was > > > >just ok, went too fast to let people absorb the lyrics, and the khichdi > > > >of "loud in comparison" "chak de India" refrain, and female chorus, > > > >backgroun just "killed/ murdered/spoiled" the beauty of the mukhda/ > > > >stanza portion of lyrics. This song should be taught in class room as > > > >the perfect case how to kill great lyrics. > > > > > > > >Similarly, Taare Zameen Par, had excellent hearth touching lyrics in > > > >"dekho inhein hain os ki boondein", tune, music also good, still the > > > >song went a tad slow, too soft, introvert, subdued that it didn't get > > > >the prominence it could have deserved. "Maa" of the same movie were too > > > >emotional in lyrics, music and singing that it deserve to not get > > > >popular, irrespective of award it fetched for the singer. > > > > > > > >Again, all these are my personal judgment. > > > > > > > >ARR's Zindagi of Yuvraj has everything great, music, lyrics, whatever > > > >else. However, Ghajini's Kaise mujhe though we all like that a lot, now > > > >I think that that song is lacking something that I can't pinpoint > > > >really. may be, it went a tad too loud, sort of a "declaration" for a > > > >emotional song that should have been introspective - a la zindagi. > > > > > > > >But, other songs of ghajini -- and I am not speaking of latto and > > > >bachchoo which were intentionally kept cheap, had poor lyrics. The most > > > >popular guzarish had lyrics that a 10th standard child poet might write, > > > > > >just putting rhyming words matching scale - no thought, no concept, no > > > >inner beauty, no content - that was wordsmithing, words being fitted to > > > >give the shape of a song like a menial worker putting physical things to > > > > > >fit in a shape. Even then it got popular. > > > > > > > >Coming to lyrics of ballooo, blooo, ullooo, falloo, there are good urdu > > > >words put at places, that had not earlier been used much in ARR songs, > > > >so they sound good. But that is it and that is all. There is not much > > > >depth vibrating through entire song. These are just individual separate > > > >pieces that are good lyrics, but none of the entire song is a single > > > >whole entity having a life of its own, no single thought or line of > > > >thought peeking from the entire songs. > > > > > > > >It is a general feeling that ARR is quite confident (though I think "too > > > > > >proud" would have explained it better but that would hurt several of > > > >you) about his musical instincts and creativity, and I concede that > > > >rightly so, but that makes him ignore lyrics "intentionally". Seems as > > > >if he considers lyrics are necessary evil and he is compromising the > > > >greatness of his music by putting lyrics in it. Sometimes he gets good > > > >poets so good lyrics come up but not as a rule of ARR songs, just > > > >because of the individual presence of a good lyrics writer who is not > > > >ready to compromise. Seems ARR's standard of lyrics is as low as > > > >"jurrasic park mein sundar se jode rap music gaaye jam ke" or "patti > > > >rap" or "latka jhatka" or "telephone dhun mein hansne wali" sort of > > > >cheapness presented in the name of lyrics. > > > > > > > >Again, all these are my personal judgment. > > > > > > > >Blue lyrics are better than Ghajini's, but still writer is appeaing as > > > >novice who might have good potential in future, but is a kid learning > > > >and experimenting at present. > > > > > > > >Again, all these are my personal judgment. > > > > > > > >Coming to music, I have been hearing Blue now for most of some 48 hours, > > > > > > and my conclusion is this. > > > > > > > >Blue music sounds so rich and complex as none of ARR's earlier album had > > > > > >been in toto till now. > > > > > > > >But, it lacks content, it is showbiz, it is decorative, it is soulless, > > > >it is all glitter and nothing else. I am listening to it and liking the > > > >beats etc., but it is not giving me internal intellectual emotional > > > >satisfaction that several of ARR's earlier words had given me. > > > > > > > >I don't know how many of you have heard "muqabla" in last one year or > > > >decade, that once went so popular that dozens of copycats mushroomed on > > > >it, its copies even went in two full fledged hindi movies, but how many > > > >of us are still listening it, how many of us listen to hello doctor or > > > >Kay Sara Sara. Such songs have a smaller lifespan. New catchy beats make > > > > > >them popular and then mind memorizes the beats pattern and the song > > > >looses charm leaving nothing emotional/ intellectual for the heart/ mind > > > > > >to cherish, and the song becomes boring or dead. > > > > > > > >Blue songs are also like that. Will go very popular but will die after > > > >that and no one will humm them or listen to them while they still go and > > > > > >will keep on going back to Dil Se after 11 years of its release or > > > >Rangeela or Taal or Bombay or Guru after years and ages of their > > release. > > > > > > > >Blue is ARR becoming commercial, though I agree that being commercial is > > > > > >not a bad thing in a commercial world. But, in blue, ARR has become > > > >purely 100% commercial, compromising his inner instinct of what he knew > > > >and trusted and gave for his fans' various tastes. This is not a good > > > >indication of the things that future holds from ARR and for ARR. > > > > > > > >Thanks for putting me into blabbering spree. > > > >-- > > > >Rawat > > > > > > > > > > > >> Keep in mind, I'm not downing anyone who doesn't like the music due > > > >> to personal taste...have no problem with that. But to call the music > > > >> average when it is clearly musically superior in compositional terms > > > >> is just false. > > > >> > > > >> I can't believe how much I'm posting about Blue's music. You can > > > >> tell I'm very excited and very happy.....almost bubbling with joy and > > > >> can't contain myself from posting here to express it! > > > >> > > > >> Thanks Gopal for creating a group that allows me to post my thoughts > > > >> and feelings so freely!! > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn more. > > http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > >
