This may not be a pro for businesses who use Remedy but the fact that it is not a mainstream language makes it a good market those who know how to develop with the tool. I think typically a Remedy developer's pay is going to be higher than say a .NET, php, <insert other language here>.
So with all of the typical features that Remedy may not have compared to a language that falls nicely into a category, if you know how it take the tool and make the differences invisible to the employeer/customer, you end up being a very valuable resource. I can't think of any application/integration that I have not been able to build in Remedy. Sure there are things like Mid-tier pages do not offer the all of the features and flexibility of an html, php, asp web page (mouse over, tables that can resize, etc) but these are not necesarrily critical to the functionality of your application (and I have heard rumblings of some changes that are suppose to fill some of these gaps with "web 2.0" apps). Even if you absoluletly need a web feature (or even a language feature) you can write the app/module/script in a different technology and interface it with Remedy. Now does the fact that it is not easy to find the resources to make the product really sing act as a con? Just a general observation, from what I have seen it commenly takes about 6 months to find a "good" remedy person. Will companies go with other tools just because of the volume of resources available? I don't think this is a typical consideration before purchasing Remedy, especially if ITSM was a gateway app to in house development but it could end up being a factor. Jason On 7/24/08, Carey Matthew Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Shawn, > > I have thought _a lot_ about how to describe ARS over the last 10 > years. I find it interesting that lots of programmers can not even > agree on what "generation" of a language (and in some cases if ARS is > a language at all) that ARS is. I have also observed that most > business people have a hard time understanding how to manage it > because it does not fit into most of their existing models either. > > Ref: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-generation_programming_language > or > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-generation_programming_language > or > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-generation_programming_language > or > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-generation_programming_language > or > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth-generation_programming_language > > ( Or any other sites/books to discuss the fine technical distinctions > between those groupings of computer programming languages that you > prefer to site.) > > > In fact most of these discussions, in the past, have even failed to > try to describe the "type" or language that ARS is. > (Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_language) > > For example... > Can we try to establish if ARS is "compiled", "interpreted", or > maybe does it use a "byte code" model? > Is ARS a "Visual programming language"? (Ref: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_programming_language) > Is ARS best described as a "Domain-specific" language? ( If so what > domain?) > ( Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-Specific_Modeling > A very interesting read ... and comparison IMO.) > > However, at the end of the analysis... these are just categorizations > of the language and likely do not really identify the true strengths > or weaknesses of the language itself. > > I will actually suggest that as the languages become more and more > abstract, the strengths will have less to do with the language and > more to do with the "programmer's knowledge of the problem". ( Which > is, again IMO, the fundamental problem with fifth generation > languages, that will take the longest to solve.) And I think this > trait is what makes ARS a "challenging tool" for programmer and > business person a like. > > > > While I think an open and genuine discussion of "pros and cons" are > good for a community to have (many times over), the point is to > formulate how those suggested changes will benefit BMC. After all, > they use the platform to make money. So whatever they are going to > change needs to show ROI to them and not necessarily the customer. > Hopefully the customer will benefit in some way, but it may be less > financial and more "business process" or "standardization" centric > than financial bottom line too. > > > BTW: I am going to be proposing a session at BUW to talk about "ARS as > a programming language". If it is selected then I hope to see all of > ARSList members there. That would be a sight to see. :) > > -- > Carey Matthew Black > Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) > ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) > > Love, then teach > Solution = People + Process + Tools > Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two. > > > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Pierson, Shawn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> I want to change the topic slightly and go off on a tangent that keeps >> coming up repeatedly. That topic is of the power of ARS for development. >> >> While I agree that ARS is great, I would have to qualify that to say that >> if you want to build an application that is within its capabilities, it is >> great. However, having worked with Visual Basic, PHP, Perl, and a few >> other things, I see plenty of limitations in ARS as a development tool. >> >> For example, there is no such thing as a variable in ARS. Yes, you can >> add a field to a form, even a Display Only field, but you can't >> instantiate fields during runtime on the fly. You have to purposely >> create fields for usage later on, and this limitation causes us to often >> re-use certain fields as generic variables, which can make troubleshooting >> difficult sometimes. I've worked on a system that someone else built that >> I had to troubleshoot something on a field that had many different Set >> Fields actions occurring at different points with different tables. It >> was definitely possible, but since ARS is missing another major capability >> that most development platforms have. >> >> ARS doesn't have a way to step through code. We can't start up processing >> on a form, and pause it to see what is going on. All we can do is 1) go >> through log files and recreate the workflow in our minds, or 2) pop up >> messages after each piece of workflow we want to troubleshoot. If there >> was a way to step through each piece of workflow that is running, that >> would be a tremendous help to us. >> >> Another issue that is more of a matter of taste I guess, is the inability >> to generate flat source-code. Yes, I have learned to read .def files to >> some extent, but it should be easier to read. Instead of values like " >> 4\1\1\179\2\4\32\Change Level IA - Implementation\" in workflow, the >> definition files should display what we see in the Admin tool. >> >> These are the somewhat major problems I have with ARS for development. If >> you want to build an application with a database back end, a web >> interface, and have most of the standard controls (save, search, >> displaying tables, etc) just work automatically, ARS is a great too. >> There isn't anything out there that I've worked with which can top ARS >> development in terms of speed. In some cases, you do have to make >> sacrifices for more complex functionality, but it's still a great >> development platform for what it does. I just wish BMC would change the >> things I mentioned above, plus a few other minor ones (I'd like to be able >> to use arrays if they implement variables, I'd like to be able to have >> workflow triggered off of typing in specific fields, not just pressing >> enter and gain/lose focus, etc.) >> >> What are your thoughts about the pros and cons of ARS as a development >> tool? Perhaps we can put all of our heads together and go back to BMC and >> tell them what we want, plus come up with enough positive things about it >> to show our clients and employers that ARS is a great development tool. >> >> Shawn Pierson > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" > _______________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Platinum Sponsor: www.rmsportal.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"
