I'm with you Phil....AAT's are limp. Bring on the club class AST's!
I don't like the fact that just beacoause you fly in the club class (for
whatever reason), you dont get to fly ASTs in the comp. setting. It is just not
representative of different skills. ASTs work fine in eurpoe, NZ and the US, so
what is the problem?
JIm
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:53:10 +1030
From: tshir...@internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition
Hi Phil,
Perhaps you misunderstood. I was not defendin g the situation, just answering
your question about the history and reasoning behind the way it has been done
up to now - and in particular to explain why there are three task types in the
rules but only one allowed in the competition.
I think it is for the pilots and the NCC to discuss and agree on the
appropriate format of tasking. I notice that in the World Club Class the fly a
mixture of fixed and AAT.
Cheers
Tim
On Fri 09/10/09 9:46 AM , "Phil" phil...@internode.on.net sent:
Thanks Tim
The handicap range is the only obvious disadvantage to setting AST. It isn't
such a disadvantage that it can't be done though - at least half of the tasks
in club class overseas, using the same handicap range, are speed tasks. The
handicap range is about 10% so on a 3 hour task (180 minutes) the slowest would
do it at 3 hours 18 minutes. Not enough difference in my mind to outright ban
the task type given the increase in fun factor. Pick the day of course.
Next:I know I've been slack at attending pilots meetings but I can't remember
Speed tasks being raised as a topic. (there were three at the last club class
comp, maybe I slipped into a coma temporarily) I stand to be corrected.
Finally: I've looked at the handicap document on the GFA web site
http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/sport/competition/Handicaps0910_ClubClass.pdf
and the handicap range for the second column labelled club class goes from 0.92
(ASW20) to 1.40 (Zephyrus). The LS8 is put in Performance class even though it
has a handicap of 0.92 like the ASW20. The GFA web site has a second document
http://2009.gfa.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=691&Itemid=184
that then gives a list of eligible gliders - a much narrower range that mirrors
the world club class. I'm guessing this is the one that applies but it is open
for debate if someone got bloody minded. Of course putting the Olympia in
performance class uses the widest definition of Performance.
Philip Ritchie
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Shirley
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition
Hi Phil,
The main reason that all the task types are listed there is that there is only
one set of rules covering all Nationals classes – multiclass, club class and
juniors – so this is the only place they can go. The idea was that then the
individual events would specify in local rules which task types apply to their
particular contests.
Traditionally club class did not set AST because of the wide range of glider
types and performances competing. The tasks would either be too short for the
higher performance ships or too long for the lower performance. AAT (and
before that, POST) tasks were considered fairer.
Even with the restriction in performance to international rules there is still
a wide range, from LS8 to Libelle. Clearly the faster gliders would have a
huge advantage by being able to use the optimum part of the day, if a fixed
length task was set. While the handicap deals with some of that, it can’t fix
it all, especially if outlandings occur because slower gliders can’t get home.
It’s come up a few times at pilots meetings. Usually briefly.
Cheers
Tim
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Phil
Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2009 18:52
To: Aus-soaring
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition
I'm looking forward to the Club Class nationals in Lake Keepit next month.
Dave Shorter sent out some information which included the rules. I was looking
at task types and found the following.
The national rules on task setting state the following:
22.3 Task Types may be chosen from any two or more of the types specified in
the authorised attachments
to these Rules provided that the chosen task type:
is authorised by NCC for the contest and
is published in the Local Rules
(The authorised attachment lists three types of tasks: Assigned Speed, Assigned
area and Run tasks)
The Local rules state that
11. TASKS: Tasks shall be Assigned Area Tasks.
Not withstanding the confusing wording of rule 22.3 I was wondering why
Assigned Speed Tasks aren't used in Club Class? At the world Club Class they
are, and since Australia changed the rules several years ago so that only
gliders that meet the world club class handicaps are eligible couldn't we also
do the same. I ask because without a doubt in my opinion AST is still the most
fun sort of racing. The limited handicap range makes the task type feasible
where previously it wasn't.
Does anybody out there know why we don't and would they be willing to enlighten
me?
Curious
Philip Ritchie
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2416 - Release Date: 10/07/09
20:49:00
_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
_________________________________________________________________
Access your other email accounts and manage all your email from one place.
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/167688463/direct/01/_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
