What's the problem? Just set an AAT with a 0.5 km TP radius!
Wombat, who plans on being at Lake Keepit next month.
At 20:49 10/10/2009, you wrote:
I'm with you Phil....AAT's are limp. Bring on the club class AST's!
I don't like the fact that just beacoause you
fly in the club class (for whatever reason), you
dont get to fly ASTs in the comp. setting. It is
just not representative of different skills.
ASTs work fine in eurpoe, NZ and the US, so what is the problem?
JIm
----------
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:53:10 +1030
From: tshir...@internode.on.net
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition
Hi Phil,
Perhaps you misunderstood. I was not defendin g
the situation, just answering your question
about the history and reasoning behind the way
it has been done up to now - and in particular
to explain why there are three task types in the
rules but only one allowed in the competition.
I think it is for the pilots and the NCC to
discuss and agree on the appropriate format of
tasking. I notice that in the World Club Class
the fly a mixture of fixed and AAT.
Cheers
Tim
On Fri 09/10/09 9:46 AM , "Phil" phil...@internode.on.net sent:
Thanks Tim
The handicap range is the only obvious
disadvantage to setting AST. It isn't such a
disadvantage that it can't be done though - at
least half of the tasks in club class overseas,
using the same handicap range, are speed tasks.
The handicap range is about 10% so on a 3 hour
task (180 minutes) the slowest would do it at 3
hours 18 minutes. Not enough difference in my
mind to outright ban the task type given the
increase in fun factor. Pick the day of course.
Next:I know I've been slack at attending pilots
meetings but I can't remember Speed tasks being
raised as a topic. (there were three at the last
club class comp, maybe I slipped into a coma
temporarily) I stand to be corrected.
Finally: I've looked at the handicap document
on the GFA web site
<http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/sport/competition/Handicaps0910_ClubClass.pdf>http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/sport/competition/Handicaps0910_ClubClass.pdf
and the handicap range for the second column
labelled club class goes from 0.92 (ASW20) to
1.40 (Zephyrus). The LS8 is put in Performance
class even though it has a handicap of 0.92 like
the ASW20. The GFA web site has a second
document
<http://2009.gfa.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=691&Itemid=184>http://2009.gfa.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=691&Itemid=184
that then gives a list of eligible gliders - a
much narrower range that mirrors the world club
class. I'm guessing this is the one that applies
but it is open for debate if someone got bloody
minded. Of course putting the Olympia in
performance class uses the widest definition of Performance.
Philip Ritchie
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:tshir...@internode.on.net>Tim Shirley
To:
<mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>'Discussion
of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition
Hi Phil,
The main reason that all the task types are
listed there is that there is only one set of
rules covering all Nationals classes
multiclass, club class and juniors so this is
the only place they can go. The idea was that
then the individual events would specify in
local rules which task types apply to their particular contests.
Traditionally club class did not set AST because
of the wide range of glider types and
performances competing. The tasks would either
be too short for the higher performance ships or
too long for the lower performance. AAT (and
before that, POST) tasks were considered fairer.
Even with the restriction in performance to
international rules there is still a wide range,
from LS8 to Libelle. Clearly the faster gliders
would have a huge advantage by being able to use
the optimum part of the day, if a fixed length
task was set. While the handicap deals with
some of that, it cant fix it all, especially if
outlandings occur because slower gliders cant get home.
Its come up a few times at pilots meetings. Usually briefly.
Cheers
Tim
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Phil
Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2009 18:52
To: Aus-soaring
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition
I'm looking forward to the Club Class nationals
in Lake Keepit next month. Dave Shorter sent
out some information which included the rules. I
was looking at task types and found the following.
The national rules on task setting state the following:
22.3 Task Types may be chosen from any two or
more of the types specified in the authorised attachments
to these Rules provided that the chosen task type:
is authorised by NCC for the contest and
is published in the Local Rules
(The authorised attachment lists three types of
tasks: Assigned Speed, Assigned area and Run tasks)
The Local rules state that
11. TASKS: Tasks shall be Assigned Area Tasks.
Not withstanding the confusing wording of rule
22.3 I was wondering why Assigned Speed Tasks
aren't used in Club Class? At the world Club
Class they are, and since Australia changed the
rules several years ago so that only gliders
that meet the world club class handicaps are
eligible couldn't we also do the same. I ask
because without a doubt in my opinion AST is
still the most fun sort of racing. The limited
handicap range makes the task type feasible where previously it wasn't.
Does anybody out there know why we don't and
would they be willing to enlighten me?
Curious
Philip Ritchie
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