And a 1 hr time! --- On Sat, 10/10/09, Mike Cleaver <wom...@netspeed.com.au> wrote:
From: Mike Cleaver <wom...@netspeed.com.au> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> Received: Saturday, 10 October, 2009, 11:37 PM What's the problem? Just set an AAT with a 0.5 km TP radius! Wombat, who plans on being at Lake Keepit next month. At 20:49 10/10/2009, you wrote: > I'm with you Phil....AAT's are limp. Bring on the club class AST's! > I don't like the fact that just beacoause you fly in the club class (for > whatever reason), you dont get to fly ASTs in the comp. setting. It is just > not representative of different skills. ASTs work fine in eurpoe, NZ and the > US, so what is the problem? > > JIm > > > ---------- > To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:53:10 +1030 > From: tshir...@internode.on.net > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition > > Hi Phil, > > Perhaps you misunderstood. I was not defendin g the situation, just > answering your question about the history and reasoning behind the way it has > been done up to now - and in particular to explain why there are three task > types in the rules but only one allowed in the competition. > > I think it is for the pilots and the NCC to discuss and agree on the > appropriate format of tasking. I notice that in the World Club Class the fly > a mixture of fixed and AAT. > > Cheers > > Tim > > > > On Fri 09/10/09 9:46 AM , "Phil" phil...@internode.on.net sent: > Thanks Tim > > The handicap range is the only obvious disadvantage to setting AST. It isn't > such a disadvantage that it can't be done though - at least half of the tasks > in club class overseas, using the same handicap range, are speed tasks. The > handicap range is about 10% so on a 3 hour task (180 minutes) the slowest > would do it at 3 hours 18 minutes. Not enough difference in my mind to > outright ban the task type given the increase in fun factor. Pick the day of > course. > > Next:I know I've been slack at attending pilots meetings but I can't remember > Speed tasks being raised as a topic. (there were three at the last club class > comp, maybe I slipped into a coma temporarily) I stand to be corrected. > > Finally: I've looked at the handicap document on the GFA web site > <http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/sport/competition/Handicaps0910_ClubClass.pdf>http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/sport/competition/Handicaps0910_ClubClass.pdf > > and the handicap range for the second column labelled club class goes from > 0.92 (ASW20) to 1.40 (Zephyrus). The LS8 is put in Performance class even > though it has a handicap of 0.92 like the ASW20. The GFA web site has a > second document > <http://2009.gfa.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=691&Itemid=184>http://2009.gfa.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=691&Itemid=184 > that then gives a list of eligible gliders - a much narrower range that > mirrors the world club class. I'm guessing this is the one that applies but > it is open for debate if someone got bloody minded. Of course putting the > Olympia in performance class uses the widest definition of Performance. > > Philip Ritchie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <mailto:tshir...@internode.on.net>Tim Shirley > To: <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>'Discussion of issues relating > to Soaring in Australia.' > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 6:41 PM > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition > > Hi Phil, > > > > The main reason that all the task types are listed there is that there is > only one set of rules covering all Nationals classes – multiclass, club class > and juniors – so this is the only place they can go. The idea was that then > the individual events would specify in local rules which task types apply to > their particular contests. > > > > Traditionally club class did not set AST because of the wide range of glider > types and performances competing. The tasks would either be too short for > the higher performance ships or too long for the lower performance. AAT (and > before that, POST) tasks were considered fairer. > > > > Even with the restriction in performance to international rules there is > still a wide range, from LS8 to Libelle. Clearly the faster gliders would > have a huge advantage by being able to use the optimum part of the day, if a > fixed length task was set. While the handicap deals with some of that, it > can’t fix it all, especially if outlandings occur because slower gliders > can’t get home. > > > > It’s come up a few times at pilots meetings. Usually briefly. > > > > Cheers > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Phil > Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2009 18:52 > To: Aus-soaring > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition > > > I'm looking forward to the Club Class nationals in Lake Keepit next month. > Dave Shorter sent out some information which included the rules. I was > looking at task types and found the following. > The national rules on task setting state the following: > 22.3 Task Types may be chosen from any two or more of the types specified in > the authorised attachments > to these Rules provided that the chosen task type: > is authorised by NCC for the contest and > is published in the Local Rules > (The authorised attachment lists three types of tasks: Assigned Speed, > Assigned area and Run tasks) > The Local rules state that > 11. TASKS: Tasks shall be Assigned Area Tasks. > Not withstanding the confusing wording of rule 22.3 I was wondering why > Assigned Speed Tasks aren't used in Club Class? At the world Club Class they > are, and since Australia changed the rules several years ago so that only > gliders that meet the world club class handicaps are eligible couldn't we > also do the same. I ask because without a doubt in my opinion AST is still > the most fun sort of racing. The limited handicap range makes the task type > feasible where previously it wasn't. > Does anybody out there know why we don't and would they be willing to > enlighten me? > > Curious > Philip Ritchie > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2416 - Release Date: 10/07/09 > 20:49:00 > > > ---------- > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > ---------- > Use Hotmail to send and receive mail from your different email accounts. > <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/167688463/direct/01/>Find out how. > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
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