You can always fly another class if you don't like it. AAT's allow many different skills to be displayed, including the skill of picking the appropriate area to fly in, and how deep to penetrate into an area. This displays the ability to read the weather conditions ahead and make judgements accordingly . What's wrong with that?
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of james crowhurst Sent: Saturday, 10 October 2009 8:50 PM To: tshir...@internode.on.net; aus soaring Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition I'm with you Phil....AAT's are limp. Bring on the club class AST's! I don't like the fact that just beacoause you fly in the club class (for whatever reason), you dont get to fly ASTs in the comp. setting. It is just not representative of different skills. ASTs work fine in eurpoe, NZ and the US, so what is the problem? JIm _____ To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 21:53:10 +1030 From: tshir...@internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition Hi Phil, Perhaps you misunderstood. I was not defendin g the situation, just answering your question about the history and reasoning behind the way it has been done up to now - and in particular to explain why there are three task types in the rules but only one allowed in the competition. I think it is for the pilots and the NCC to discuss and agree on the appropriate format of tasking. I notice that in the World Club Class the fly a mixture of fixed and AAT. Cheers Tim On Fri 09/10/09 9:46 AM , "Phil" phil...@internode.on.net sent: Thanks Tim The handicap range is the only obvious disadvantage to setting AST. It isn't such a disadvantage that it can't be done though - at least half of the tasks in club class overseas, using the same handicap range, are speed tasks. The handicap range is about 10% so on a 3 hour task (180 minutes) the slowest would do it at 3 hours 18 minutes. Not enough difference in my mind to outright ban the task type given the increase in fun factor. Pick the day of course. Next:I know I've been slack at attending pilots meetings but I can't remember Speed tasks being raised as a topic. (there were three at the last club class comp, maybe I slipped into a coma temporarily) I stand to be corrected. Finally: I've looked at the handicap document on the GFA web site http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/sport/competition/Handicaps0910_ClubClass.pdf and the handicap range for the second column labelled club class goes from 0.92 (ASW20) to 1.40 (Zephyrus). The LS8 is put in Performance class even though it has a handicap of 0.92 like the ASW20. The GFA web site has a second document http://2009.gfa.org.au/index.php?option=com_content <http://2009.gfa.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=691&Itemid =184> &task=view&id=691&Itemid=184 that then gives a list of eligible gliders - a much narrower range that mirrors the world club class. I'm guessing this is the one that applies but it is open for debate if someone got bloody minded. Of course putting the Olympia in performance class uses the widest definition of Performance. Philip Ritchie ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Shirley <mailto:tshir...@internode.on.net> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition Hi Phil, The main reason that all the task types are listed there is that there is only one set of rules covering all Nationals classes - multiclass, club class and juniors - so this is the only place they can go. The idea was that then the individual events would specify in local rules which task types apply to their particular contests. Traditionally club class did not set AST because of the wide range of glider types and performances competing. The tasks would either be too short for the higher performance ships or too long for the lower performance. AAT (and before that, POST) tasks were considered fairer. Even with the restriction in performance to international rules there is still a wide range, from LS8 to Libelle. Clearly the faster gliders would have a huge advantage by being able to use the optimum part of the day, if a fixed length task was set. While the handicap deals with some of that, it can't fix it all, especially if outlandings occur because slower gliders can't get home. It's come up a few times at pilots meetings. Usually briefly. Cheers Tim From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Phil Sent: Thursday, 8 October 2009 18:52 To: Aus-soaring Subject: [Aus-soaring] Club Class competition I'm looking forward to the Club Class nationals in Lake Keepit next month. Dave Shorter sent out some information which included the rules. I was looking at task types and found the following. The national rules on task setting state the following: 22.3 Task Types may be chosen from any two or more of the types specified in the authorised attachments to these Rules provided that the chosen task type: is authorised by NCC for the contest and is published in the Local Rules (The authorised attachment lists three types of tasks: Assigned Speed, Assigned area and Run tasks) The Local rules state that 11. TASKS: Tasks shall be Assigned Area Tasks. Not withstanding the confusing wording of rule 22.3 I was wondering why Assigned Speed Tasks aren't used in Club Class? At the world Club Class they are, and since Australia changed the rules several years ago so that only gliders that meet the world club class handicaps are eligible couldn't we also do the same. I ask because without a doubt in my opinion AST is still the most fun sort of racing. The limited handicap range makes the task type feasible where previously it wasn't. Does anybody out there know why we don't and would they be willing to enlighten me? Curious Philip Ritchie No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.4/2416 - Release Date: 10/07/09 20:49:00 _____ _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _____ Use Hotmail to send and receive mail from your different email accounts. Find out <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/167688463/direct/01/> how. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2426 - Release Date: 10/09/09 18:43:00
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