Just to clarify, I've made the change in the deviceId verbiage in the spec,
not pointerId :)
On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 8:40:00 PM UTC-8 Sahir Vellani wrote:
> I can't say what the reasoning is for that behavior in
> PointerEvent.pointerId, as I was not involved. However, I will make a
> change in the spec to only use the value of 1 for primary mouse device.
> There may be a scenario where PointerEvent.deviceId is unsupported by the
> UA (separate from an invalid id of -1); e.g, on platforms where the feature
> is unimplemented. In that case, developers might have a check like
> if(event.deviceId) {...}. If the deviceId is 0 for a valid reason, it will
> fail that check. I see no harm in limiting the deviceId from primary mouse
> to 1. It will avoid this interop issue and make the feature more friendly
> to web developers.
>
> On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 6:26:20 PM UTC-8 mike...@chromium.org
> wrote:
>
>> Forgive my ignorance around this API generally, but is there any reason
>> the spec can't require a single value? If not, why not?
>> On 1/18/24 3:05 PM, 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev wrote:
>>
>> Appreciate the feedback! Yes the PR was reviewed by WG members for any
>> major concerns; but I believe there will be more comprehensive feedback
>> once the Level 3 spec lands. Regarding your concern, the language is based
>> on that of PointerEvent.pointerId. The ultimate goal here is to
>> differentiate between devices, and like pointerId, the way the ids are
>> assigned has been left to the UA. I think web developers should be able to
>> rely on PointerEvent.pointerType to confirm whether the pointer event comes
>> from the primary mouse device. In Chromium, we transmit 1 for the mouse for
>> PointerEvent.deviceId.
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 7:39:48 AM UTC-8 yoav...@chromium.org
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 3:51:59 PM UTC+1 vmp...@google.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:08 PM 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev <
>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all, good news!
>>>
>>> Reviving this thread because we have accomplished:
>>> 1. TAG Review Completion: Extending the PointerEvent with Unique
>>> DeviceId Attribute · Issue #880 · w3ctag/design-reviews (github.com)
>>> <https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/880> Resolution:
>>> Satisfied
>>> 2. WICG Repository for standardization discussions. Link to explainer in
>>> WICG Repo: pointer-event-extensions/pointer-event-device-id-explainer.md
>>> at main · WICG/pointer-event-extensions (github.com)
>>> <https://github.com/WICG/pointer-event-extensions/blob/main/pointer-event-device-id-explainer.md>
>>> 3. A PR against the PointerEvent spec with proposed changes: Add
>>> deviceId to PointerEvent spec by sahirv · Pull Request #495 ·
>>> w3c/pointerevents (github.com)
>>> <https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/495/files> We will be
>>> waiting for Spec Level 3 to come out before this can be merged; but this
>>> provides an official starting point for the standardized description of
>>> this feature. Based on the feedback received, I don't anticipate any major
>>> changes to the design.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the PR! Was it reviewed by other WG members?
>>> For example, "User agents MAY reserve a generic `deviceId` value of `0`
>>> or `1` for events generated by the primary mouse device." seems risky from
>>> an interop perspective. E.g. developers may rely on some UAs doing that and
>>> fail when others don't.
>>>
>>>
>>> For posterity, I was initially unsure why this wasn't an issue on the
>>> w3c/pointerevents, but it does seem like the discussion happened there and
>>> folks agreed to move this in WICG: https://github.com/w3c/
>>> pointerevents/issues/353 \o/
>>>
>>>
>>> Reviewers, can we please get another review for shipping this feature?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 8:55:43 AM UTC-7 sligh...@chromium.org
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree that this needs a spec PR and the explainer should at least
>>> migrate to WICG before we agree to ship. Also, can you please link to the
>>> TAG review?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 4:16:41 AM UTC-7 Yoav Weiss wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 12:42 AM Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> LGTM1
>>> On 10/15/23 11:07 AM, 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback, I wasn't aware they were mandatory. The steps
>>> have been started, just awaiting feedback from Security and Privacy
>>> reviewers. I've received LGTMs for all other areas. After our response to
>>> WebKit's question, they did not have any further follow-up questions. So
>>> I'm assuming all is well.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:59:15 AM UTC-7 Daniel Bratell wrote:
>>>
>>> I see that various mandatory steps in chromestatus
>>> (privacy,security,enterprise,debuggability,testing) seems to be
>>> unstarted. It is possible they were made mandatory after you create the
>>> entry, but it would be good if you could get them started now at least.
>>>
>>> Also, it's unfortunate that TAG and standards positions requests have
>>> not resulted in anything, but that is hardly your fault. There were some
>>> questions in the WebKit request. Is all that ok now?
>>>
>>> /Daniel
>>> On 2023-10-06 20:10, 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 9:03:35 AM UTC-7 mike...@chromium.org
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/4/23 7:43 PM, 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev wrote:
>>>
>>> Contact emails
>>> gerc...@microsoft.com, sahir....@microsoft.com
>>>
>>> Explainer
>>> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/
>>> PointerEventDeviceId/explainer.md
>>>
>>> Specification
>>> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/
>>> PointerEventDeviceId/explainer.md
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a more formal spec for this?
>>> Any support outside of Microsoft that would enable y'all to move this to
>>> the WICG?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Summary
>>>
>>> As devices with advanced pen input capabilities are becoming
>>> increasingly prevalent, it is important that the web platform continues to
>>> evolve to fully support these advanced features in order to unlock rich
>>> experiences for both end users and developers. One such advancement is the
>>> ability for a device's digitizer to recognize more than one pen device
>>> interacting with it simultaneously. This feature is an extension to the
>>> PointerEvent interface to include a new attribute, deviceId, that
>>> represents a session-persistent, document isolated, unique identifier that
>>> a developer can reliably use to identify individual pens interacting with
>>> the page.
>>>
>>>
>>> Blink component
>>> Blink>Input
>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EInput>
>>>
>>> TAG review
>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/880
>>>
>>> TAG review status
>>> Pending. TAG review has been pending for 2 months.
>>>
>>> Risks
>>>
>>>
>>> Interoperability and Compatibility
>>>
>>>
>>> *Gecko*: No signal (https://github.com/mozilla/
>>> standards-positions/issues/715)
>>>
>>> *WebKit*: No signal (https://github.com/WebKit/
>>> standards-positions/issues/102)
>>>
>>> *Web developers*: No signals
>>>
>>> *Other signals*:
>>>
>>> WebView application risks
>>>
>>> *Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such
>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications?*
>>>
>>> None
>>>
>>>
>>> Debuggability
>>>
>>>
>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, Mac,
>>> Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)?
>>> No
>>>
>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests
>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md>
>>> ?
>>> No. However, there are web tests in Chromium that test PointerEventInit
>>> with this feature.
>>>
>>> Flag name on chrome://flags
>>> PointerEventDeviceId
>>>
>>> Finch feature name
>>>
>>>
>>> Non-finch justification
>>> Edge origin trials successfully underway.
>>>
>>> Any Origin Trial feedback you can share?
>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely, the feature has been working well. Our partners (Microsoft
>>> Whiteboard) have enabled the feature that is dependent on this API for
>>> their general audience! We did not receive any constructive feedback. This
>>> API is being used by them on Microsoft Surface Hub devices, which support
>>> multi-pen inking.
>>>
>>>
>>> Requires code in //chrome?
>>> False
>>>
>>> Measurement
>>> PointerEventDeviceId use counter implemented.
>>>
>>> Availability expectation
>>> Initially available on Chromium browsers on Windows.
>>>
>>> Out of curiosity, are there limitations on other platforms that prevent
>>> supporting this feature?
>>>
>>>
>>> We haven't been able to get our hands on hardware that supports other
>>> platforms in addition to multi pen inking in order to implement and
>>> appropriately test this feature. We welcome any sponsors for implementing
>>> and testing this, especially on Linux/Android.
>>>
>>>
>>> Adoption expectation
>>> Feature is used by specific partner(s) to provide functionality
>>> immediately upon launch.
>>>
>>> Adoption plan
>>> This feature has been through origin trials on Edge. It is being used by
>>> partners that provide features on devices with multi pen support.
>>>
>>> Non-OSS dependencies
>>>
>>> *Does the feature depend on any code or APIs outside the Chromium open
>>> source repository and its open-source dependencies to function?*
>>> Operating system API's are used to obtain the device id, and are
>>> necessary for this feature to function. Please see the security
>>> questionnaire in the TAG review on security and privacy concerns related to
>>> the use of these APIs.
>>>
>>> Estimated milestones
>>> Shipping on desktop
>>> 120
>>>
>>>
>>> Anticipated spec changes
>>>
>>> *Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web compat or
>>> interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to known github issues
>>> in the project for the feature specification) whose resolution may
>>> introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to naming or structure of
>>> the API in a non-backward-compatible way).*
>>> WICG Proposal: https://github.com/WICG/proposals/issues/101 No web
>>> compat/interop risk.
>>>
>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status
>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5114132234240000
>>>
>>> Links to previous Intent discussions
>>> Intent to prototype: https://groups.google.com/a/
>>> chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/SA0PR00MB1033E5DE0BDE42239E647
>>> E9AFB189%40SA0PR00MB1033.namprd00.prod.outlook.com
>>>
>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status
>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>.
>>>
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