Hi all, any more questions or concerns? On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 8:44:58 PM UTC-8 Sahir Vellani wrote:
> Just to clarify, I've made the change in the deviceId verbiage in the > spec, not pointerId :) > > On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 8:40:00 PM UTC-8 Sahir Vellani wrote: > >> I can't say what the reasoning is for that behavior in >> PointerEvent.pointerId, as I was not involved. However, I will make a >> change in the spec to only use the value of 1 for primary mouse device. >> There may be a scenario where PointerEvent.deviceId is unsupported by the >> UA (separate from an invalid id of -1); e.g, on platforms where the feature >> is unimplemented. In that case, developers might have a check like >> if(event.deviceId) {...}. If the deviceId is 0 for a valid reason, it will >> fail that check. I see no harm in limiting the deviceId from primary mouse >> to 1. It will avoid this interop issue and make the feature more friendly >> to web developers. >> >> On Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 6:26:20 PM UTC-8 mike...@chromium.org >> wrote: >> >>> Forgive my ignorance around this API generally, but is there any reason >>> the spec can't require a single value? If not, why not? >>> On 1/18/24 3:05 PM, 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev wrote: >>> >>> Appreciate the feedback! Yes the PR was reviewed by WG members for any >>> major concerns; but I believe there will be more comprehensive feedback >>> once the Level 3 spec lands. Regarding your concern, the language is based >>> on that of PointerEvent.pointerId. The ultimate goal here is to >>> differentiate between devices, and like pointerId, the way the ids are >>> assigned has been left to the UA. I think web developers should be able to >>> rely on PointerEvent.pointerType to confirm whether the pointer event comes >>> from the primary mouse device. In Chromium, we transmit 1 for the mouse for >>> PointerEvent.deviceId. >>> >>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 7:39:48 AM UTC-8 yoav...@chromium.org >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 3:51:59 PM UTC+1 vmp...@google.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:08 PM 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev < >>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, good news! >>>> >>>> Reviving this thread because we have accomplished: >>>> 1. TAG Review Completion: Extending the PointerEvent with Unique >>>> DeviceId Attribute · Issue #880 · w3ctag/design-reviews (github.com) >>>> <https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/880> Resolution: >>>> Satisfied >>>> 2. WICG Repository for standardization discussions. Link to explainer >>>> in WICG Repo: >>>> pointer-event-extensions/pointer-event-device-id-explainer.md >>>> at main · WICG/pointer-event-extensions (github.com) >>>> <https://github.com/WICG/pointer-event-extensions/blob/main/pointer-event-device-id-explainer.md> >>>> 3. A PR against the PointerEvent spec with proposed changes: Add >>>> deviceId to PointerEvent spec by sahirv · Pull Request #495 · >>>> w3c/pointerevents (github.com) >>>> <https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/495/files> We will be >>>> waiting for Spec Level 3 to come out before this can be merged; but this >>>> provides an official starting point for the standardized description of >>>> this feature. Based on the feedback received, I don't anticipate any major >>>> changes to the design. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for the PR! Was it reviewed by other WG members? >>>> For example, "User agents MAY reserve a generic `deviceId` value of `0` >>>> or `1` for events generated by the primary mouse device." seems risky from >>>> an interop perspective. E.g. developers may rely on some UAs doing that >>>> and >>>> fail when others don't. >>>> >>>> >>>> For posterity, I was initially unsure why this wasn't an issue on the >>>> w3c/pointerevents, but it does seem like the discussion happened there and >>>> folks agreed to move this in WICG: https://github.com/w3c/ >>>> pointerevents/issues/353 \o/ >>>> >>>> >>>> Reviewers, can we please get another review for shipping this feature? >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, October 18, 2023 at 8:55:43 AM UTC-7 >>>> sligh...@chromium.org wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree that this needs a spec PR and the explainer should at least >>>> migrate to WICG before we agree to ship. Also, can you please link to the >>>> TAG review? >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 4:16:41 AM UTC-7 Yoav Weiss wrote: >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 12:42 AM Mike Taylor <mike...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> LGTM1 >>>> On 10/15/23 11:07 AM, 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for the feedback, I wasn't aware they were mandatory. The steps >>>> have been started, just awaiting feedback from Security and Privacy >>>> reviewers. I've received LGTMs for all other areas. After our response to >>>> WebKit's question, they did not have any further follow-up questions. So >>>> I'm assuming all is well. >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:59:15 AM UTC-7 Daniel Bratell wrote: >>>> >>>> I see that various mandatory steps in chromestatus >>>> (privacy,security,enterprise,debuggability,testing) seems to be >>>> unstarted. It is possible they were made mandatory after you create the >>>> entry, but it would be good if you could get them started now at least. >>>> >>>> Also, it's unfortunate that TAG and standards positions requests have >>>> not resulted in anything, but that is hardly your fault. There were some >>>> questions in the WebKit request. Is all that ok now? >>>> >>>> /Daniel >>>> On 2023-10-06 20:10, 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 9:03:35 AM UTC-7 mike...@chromium.org >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/4/23 7:43 PM, 'Sahir Vellani' via blink-dev wrote: >>>> >>>> Contact emails >>>> gerc...@microsoft.com, sahir....@microsoft.com >>>> >>>> Explainer >>>> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/ >>>> PointerEventDeviceId/explainer.md >>>> >>>> Specification >>>> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/ >>>> PointerEventDeviceId/explainer.md >>>> >>>> >>>> Is there a more formal spec for this? >>>> Any support outside of Microsoft that would enable y'all to move this >>>> to the WICG? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Summary >>>> >>>> As devices with advanced pen input capabilities are becoming >>>> increasingly prevalent, it is important that the web platform continues to >>>> evolve to fully support these advanced features in order to unlock rich >>>> experiences for both end users and developers. One such advancement is the >>>> ability for a device's digitizer to recognize more than one pen device >>>> interacting with it simultaneously. This feature is an extension to the >>>> PointerEvent interface to include a new attribute, deviceId, that >>>> represents a session-persistent, document isolated, unique identifier that >>>> a developer can reliably use to identify individual pens interacting with >>>> the page. >>>> >>>> >>>> Blink component >>>> Blink>Input >>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EInput> >>>> >>>> TAG review >>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/880 >>>> >>>> TAG review status >>>> Pending. TAG review has been pending for 2 months. >>>> >>>> Risks >>>> >>>> >>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>> >>>> >>>> *Gecko*: No signal (https://github.com/mozilla/ >>>> standards-positions/issues/715) >>>> >>>> *WebKit*: No signal (https://github.com/WebKit/ >>>> standards-positions/issues/102) >>>> >>>> *Web developers*: No signals >>>> >>>> *Other signals*: >>>> >>>> WebView application risks >>>> >>>> *Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications?* >>>> >>>> None >>>> >>>> >>>> Debuggability >>>> >>>> >>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>> Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>> No >>>> >>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>> ? >>>> No. However, there are web tests in Chromium that test PointerEventInit >>>> with this feature. >>>> >>>> Flag name on chrome://flags >>>> PointerEventDeviceId >>>> >>>> Finch feature name >>>> >>>> >>>> Non-finch justification >>>> Edge origin trials successfully underway. >>>> >>>> Any Origin Trial feedback you can share? >>>> >>>> >>>> Absolutely, the feature has been working well. Our partners (Microsoft >>>> Whiteboard) have enabled the feature that is dependent on this API for >>>> their general audience! We did not receive any constructive feedback. This >>>> API is being used by them on Microsoft Surface Hub devices, which support >>>> multi-pen inking. >>>> >>>> >>>> Requires code in //chrome? >>>> False >>>> >>>> Measurement >>>> PointerEventDeviceId use counter implemented. >>>> >>>> Availability expectation >>>> Initially available on Chromium browsers on Windows. >>>> >>>> Out of curiosity, are there limitations on other platforms that prevent >>>> supporting this feature? >>>> >>>> >>>> We haven't been able to get our hands on hardware that supports other >>>> platforms in addition to multi pen inking in order to implement and >>>> appropriately test this feature. We welcome any sponsors for implementing >>>> and testing this, especially on Linux/Android. >>>> >>>> >>>> Adoption expectation >>>> Feature is used by specific partner(s) to provide functionality >>>> immediately upon launch. >>>> >>>> Adoption plan >>>> This feature has been through origin trials on Edge. It is being used >>>> by partners that provide features on devices with multi pen support. >>>> >>>> Non-OSS dependencies >>>> >>>> *Does the feature depend on any code or APIs outside the Chromium open >>>> source repository and its open-source dependencies to function?* >>>> Operating system API's are used to obtain the device id, and are >>>> necessary for this feature to function. Please see the security >>>> questionnaire in the TAG review on security and privacy concerns related >>>> to >>>> the use of these APIs. >>>> >>>> Estimated milestones >>>> Shipping on desktop >>>> 120 >>>> >>>> >>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>> >>>> *Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web compat or >>>> interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to known github issues >>>> in the project for the feature specification) whose resolution may >>>> introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to naming or structure >>>> of >>>> the API in a non-backward-compatible way).* >>>> WICG Proposal: https://github.com/WICG/proposals/issues/101 No web >>>> compat/interop risk. >>>> >>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5114132234240000 >>>> >>>> Links to previous Intent discussions >>>> Intent to prototype: https://groups.google.com/a/ >>>> chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/SA0PR00MB1033E5DE0BDE42239E647 >>>> E9AFB189%40SA0PR00MB1033.namprd00.prod.outlook.com >>>> >>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/ >>>> chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/PH0PR00MB1349B7917876E7AC505E7 >>>> 90AFBCBA%40PH0PR00MB1349.namprd00.prod.outlook.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/PH0PR00MB1349B7917876E7AC505E790AFBCBA%40PH0PR00MB1349.namprd00.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/ >>>> chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/c8f16bc4-8d21-450b-9178- >>>> 964cba818a68n%40chromium.org >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/c8f16bc4-8d21-450b-9178-964cba818a68n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>> >>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/ >>>> chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/8077a67d-4104-48c6-9f9b- >>>> 09f9e6c8b022n%40chromium.org >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/8077a67d-4104-48c6-9f9b-09f9e6c8b022n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/ >>>> chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/13bad65e-6276-4567-b6e3- >>>> 0961e44bc6d1%40chromium.org >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/13bad65e-6276-4567-b6e3-0961e44bc6d1%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/ >>>> chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/cbc6e96b-0165-4e28-8f16- >>>> 786f0dea7ac8n%40chromium.org >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/cbc6e96b-0165-4e28-8f16-786f0dea7ac8n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6afb2718-89f6-47d5-9052-d5ab2a8f849dn%40chromium.org >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6afb2718-89f6-47d5-9052-d5ab2a8f849dn%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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