----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Tarr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 10:48 PM Subject: Re: A Problem For Conservatives
> > >But creationists and their ilk are either ignorant Authoritarians or lying > >Authoritarians. Further, I believe they are a great danger to our freedoms > >and liberties as long as they are given voice and can inform policy > >decisions. We have had to rely heavily on the courts to protect us and I > >really believe that is a bad habit we need to break. > > > >I suppose it was at one time a matter of political expediency that caused > >conservatives to ally themselves with fringe elements of the religious > >right, but at this point it seems to me that conservatism has been infected > >with memes that will eventually undo them if rationalism prevails. > > > >The funny thing about it is that one would expect conservatives to *be* the > >rational pragmatics as opposed to the irrational dogmatics. > > > >rob > > > You say: > "I believe they are a great danger to our freedoms and liberties as long as > they are given voice and can inform policy decisions. We have had to rely > heavily on the courts to protect us and I really believe that is a bad > habit we need to break." > > But aren't there just as many strong liberal points of view, people that > are given voice and can inform policy decisions, at least in the prior ten > years? While you may be pointing to a specific religious issue, the liberal > ideas I'm thinking of* can be founded in their 'beliefs' of what is the > right way to do something, the only way, no matter how many times they are > shown it's wrong. Most politics, at least in America, concerns "how" to do things much more that it concerns eventualities. IOW politics is about 'means' rather than 'ends'. The eventual goals of both dominant parties is freedom, prosperity, and security for everyone, they just differ on the path that should be taken to achieve these goals. I agree that there are also liberal nutcases out there, but I dont think anyone takes them seriously. At least not in the way that conservatives seem to have empowered "their" nutcases. I'm not refering in any way to matters like abortion, which is to a great degree a matter of opinion and where neither side of the argument has enough "facts" to destroy the opposing rhetoric. I'm refering to matters such as creationism which has actually been a dead issue for many years, yet seems to be ressurected on a regular basis like some kind of usefull zombie meme. (Zombie Meme - now there is a useful term!) > > And what do you mean by relying heavily on the courts? Removing christian > symbols from Christmas displays, while leaving Jewish and Islamic symbols? > Do you mean such horrors as forcing the removal of a 85 year old plaque of > the ten commandments from the lobby of a public courthouse? Praise be the > right thinkers, the country is saved! Sorry, just having fun. The courts have had to rescue students from being taught "creationism as Science" several times since *I* gained my majority. Jonny cant read, Jonny has no respect for education, and Jonny is an expert on reality because he knows his Bible. Does anyone else see a trend here? > > As I've said many times before, I try and hold no religious views. (not > opinions, just beliefs) But I don't think religion should be banished, it > should be kept around as an opiate for the masses, as it were. Actually I agree a bit here. I dont see religion as a necessarily bad thing as some do. I think religion has a great power to uplift the human spirit even though it also has a great power for abuse. >Rich asked > why Amerikka seemed to have such issues while the UK doesn't. I was trying > to find this stat, I only found indirect quotes: the US has 40% (seems > high) religious participation while the UK has only 2% (seems too low). So > this is fertile ground for more wackos, more chance that they will hold > visible positions. Not calling this wacko, but would you find the same > 'homosexual' issues being discussed in San Francisco city council being > discussed in Green Bay, Wisconsin? Depends. Do they have homosexuals in Green Bay, do you think? >I'm sure there are non religious ideas > being discussed somewhere that would raise red flags in most intelligent > people, but an issue like ceremonialism is on reporters short list of > newsworthy topics. In 1998 if a southern black church was struck by > lightning, even if the reporter said it wasn't burnt down by a human hand, > it would be a news item because at first there were 'fears' it was an arson > fire. (A poor allegory, hopefully you can understand what I'm trying to say). Its a good point, but something of a tangent from what I am driving at. xponent Zombie Meme Maru rob ________________________________ You are a fluke of the universe. You have no right to be here. And whether you can hear it or not, the universe is laughing behind your back. _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
