Hi Team,
I agree completely with Elpidio (and I guess with the rest of the community). What Papillion is suggesting is simply what I would call "Piracy" even though it may seem to be a very legitimate move to fork. I have been studying the Care2x software for the past two years and I'm taking my time contributing where I can and not waiting for sometime to develop some "nice module" or functionality and then critique it! If things are not moving fast enough, add the momentum to help them move, not simply thinking forking will be the solution here.
I have witnessed individualistic people who pounce on every opportunity fail when they fork projects whose roots they can't trace so that they could get all the credit. I personally would not follow over-hurried projects in search on "fast-forward progress" only to get disappointed later. Team work within opensource is all about patience, contribution and communication and positive talk, not waiting behind some monitor for someone to magically make things move at YOUR desired pace!!
Help us address the problems identified, talk to Kolayan and the rest of the community. Open source people like challenges and my guess is that they will gratefully contribute to the address of these problems
Thanks for the response Elpidio,
Moses Moloi
Gaborone, Botswana
I agree completely with Elpidio (and I guess with the rest of the community). What Papillion is suggesting is simply what I would call "Piracy" even though it may seem to be a very legitimate move to fork. I have been studying the Care2x software for the past two years and I'm taking my time contributing where I can and not waiting for sometime to develop some "nice module" or functionality and then critique it! If things are not moving fast enough, add the momentum to help them move, not simply thinking forking will be the solution here.
I have witnessed individualistic people who pounce on every opportunity fail when they fork projects whose roots they can't trace so that they could get all the credit. I personally would not follow over-hurried projects in search on "fast-forward progress" only to get disappointed later. Team work within opensource is all about patience, contribution and communication and positive talk, not waiting behind some monitor for someone to magically make things move at YOUR desired pace!!
Help us address the problems identified, talk to Kolayan and the rest of the community. Open source people like challenges and my guess is that they will gratefully contribute to the address of these problems
Thanks for the response Elpidio,
Moses Moloi
Gaborone, Botswana
----- Original Message ----
From: Anthony Papillion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:07:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Care2002-developers] Care2X Issues and Fork
From: Anthony Papillion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:07:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Care2002-developers] Care2X Issues and Fork
Hi Elpidio & C2X Community:
I certainly don't think that the Care2X project is
something to be taken lightly nor do I think that
actually forking away from the main project will be
easy should it happen. In fact, I said in my original
post that I would rather NOT fork. But, I think we can
all agree, there are some problems with the project
that need to be addressed.
Since I opened the discussion about forking I've seen
a lot of positive movement on the dicussion list.
Hopefully, that movement will/has translated into
movement on the project. I will only continue with a
fork if the project stales or if the same issues that
have been brought up by others continue to be issues
and are never addressed. Indeed, that would be the
entire reason behind a fork.
As I said, I do not WANT to fork. It would be my
preference to jump into the Care2X community and help
move the project to a more competitive and more
professional place. But it takes the entire
development community to move us there, not just one
or two people.
Lastly, you're right: we don't know what's going on
behind the scenes. But that is largly due to lack of
developer communication with the community. When we
hear little or nothing from the devs, even in response
to questions posted on the list, how can we be
expected to know what's going on behind the scenes?
Largely, all we see is a barely functioning, very
public facing website that looks kind of abandoned.
Nothing is posted to the site as to what is wrong with
it, when it will be back up, etc. That hurts the
projects image to have those problems in such public
view without any explaination as to what is going on.
So let's work together to see where this can go. Maybe
a fork isn't a good idea at the moment, maybe it is. I
suppose we'll have to wait and see if things change
anytime soon. I still do support the C2X project and
would love to see it move forward and become what we
all know it can be. We just need developers and
community to work together.
Sincerely,
Anthony Papillion
--- Elpidio Latorilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Anthony,
>
> whether you decide to fork or not to fork, the
> care2x will stay as a
> project.
> We have been laboring on this for a long time.
>
> If you think you can develop a better project in
> this scale, nobody can
> stop you
> from doing so. In fact I will give you a tip:
> developers will join you
> "only" if they
> see that you can create something feasible to back
> up your talk.
>
> Developers are intelligent people (in fact very
> intelligent), they will
> see through
> you very quickly. Do not fall into the wrong
> assumption that starting
> an open-source
> project (even those you only fork) is easy. It is
> not. If you had the
> impression that
> care2x project was easy, it was only because a lot
> of people have
> labored to
> make it easy "for you". Like for example: a guy is
> now struggling and
> fighting
> with a hosting company to repair everything to its
> previous status while
> you are sitting
> in front of your computer waiting for something to
> happen.
>
> If we dont know what amount of work is being done
> behind a seemingly
> "easy" project, it is
> easy to make the mistake of adding insult to injury.
>
> Good luck in your new endeavor.
>
> Elpidio
>
> Anthony Papillion wrote:
>
> >Dear Care2X Developers and Community,
> >
> >Over the last year, I've carefully monitored the
> >Care2X project with the hopes of it becoming a
> viable
> >option for use within North America. I even, at one
> >time volunteered to assist in making sure that all
> the
> >pieces were in place for North American deployment
> and
> >never received any feedback or information. That,
> >combined with the recent lack of developer
> interaction
> >with the community, has led me to believe that
> Care2X
> >is dead. Additionally, after reviewing the codebase
> >for the last few days, I'm growing increasingly
> >concerned about the code itself as much of it seems
> >fairly "hacked" together with little or no rhyme or
> >reason.
> >
> >As such, I'm seriously considering forking Care2X,
> >using what code is usable, and rewriting the large
> >portions that aren't while extending the product to
> >better meet the needs of North American hospitals
> and
> >healthcare providers. A fork, as you all know, is a
> >radical departure from the established group and
> it's
> >not something I'm lightly considering. It would be
> a
> >lot of work but I believe that the entire project
> and
> >its image would greatly benefit from having a more
> >active and involved development team seriously
> working
> >on the project and making it better.
> >
> >So what's going to happen now?
> >
> >First, I want to give the Care2X developers and
> >community the abillity to respond to this. Is
> Care2X
> >still a viable product? If so, where are all of the
> >developers and why are they not participating in
> the
> >community? What are some ideas to make Care2X
> better
> >and, developers, are you willing to listen to the
> >communities needs?
> >
> >Next, after giving everyone an adaquate chance to
> >comment on this subject and guaging if the
> developers
> >have a solid plan to fix the problems with Care2X,
> we
> >will either decide to proceed with the fork or give
> >Care2X a little longer to shape things up. I think
> >July 1 is a good enough amount of time for
> discussion.
> >
> >Developers: I do NOT WANT TO FORK this project. But
> >one cannot simply create a project, expect it to be
> >used, but never interact with the community or move
> >the project to more professional pastures. I am
> >BEGGING you to give this community some idea of
> WHERE
> >we are going, WHEN we are going there, WHAT we are
> >going to do to get there, and WHERE we are going.
> >Clear direction is needed. Can you provide it?
> >
> >Community: Obviously we all care about Care2X and
> its
> >future. Some of us are seriously wanting to move it
> >into new and exciting areas but we can't do that
> >without either a fork or more developer support. I
> ask
> >that you begin an open discussion on this list
> about
> >the issues you find with Care2X and let the
> developers
> >know what you want, need, and expect from them.
> >
> >Lastly, I understand that Care2X, like most open
> >source product, is largely a labor of love and it
> is
> >the product of many hours of volunteer time. As
> such,
> >I understand that the developers must balance their
> >work on the product with their real lives and jobs.
> I
> >am not asking for full-time development on the
> >product. I am not asking for questions to be
> answered
> >in 20 minutes or for updates to be done overnight.
> >What I am asking is for SOME developer
> participation
> >in the community and SOME active development that
> >addresses community needs.
> >
> >If anyone would like to discuss this issue further
> >with me please either email the list, email me
> >personally, or call me anytime. My contact info is
> >below.
> >
> >It is my sincere hope that Care2X can rise from its
> >current state and become a better, stronger, and
> >dominant product. It is my hope that we can all
> pull
> >it out of its slump and into a higher place. But it
> >will take a concerted effort and it is my hope that
> >that effort starts today.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >Anthony Papillion
> >Advanced Data Concets
> >
> >P: (918) 926-0139
> >E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Care2002-developers mailing list
> >Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
>
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Care2002-developers mailing list
> Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
Care2002-developers mailing list
Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers
I certainly don't think that the Care2X project is
something to be taken lightly nor do I think that
actually forking away from the main project will be
easy should it happen. In fact, I said in my original
post that I would rather NOT fork. But, I think we can
all agree, there are some problems with the project
that need to be addressed.
Since I opened the discussion about forking I've seen
a lot of positive movement on the dicussion list.
Hopefully, that movement will/has translated into
movement on the project. I will only continue with a
fork if the project stales or if the same issues that
have been brought up by others continue to be issues
and are never addressed. Indeed, that would be the
entire reason behind a fork.
As I said, I do not WANT to fork. It would be my
preference to jump into the Care2X community and help
move the project to a more competitive and more
professional place. But it takes the entire
development community to move us there, not just one
or two people.
Lastly, you're right: we don't know what's going on
behind the scenes. But that is largly due to lack of
developer communication with the community. When we
hear little or nothing from the devs, even in response
to questions posted on the list, how can we be
expected to know what's going on behind the scenes?
Largely, all we see is a barely functioning, very
public facing website that looks kind of abandoned.
Nothing is posted to the site as to what is wrong with
it, when it will be back up, etc. That hurts the
projects image to have those problems in such public
view without any explaination as to what is going on.
So let's work together to see where this can go. Maybe
a fork isn't a good idea at the moment, maybe it is. I
suppose we'll have to wait and see if things change
anytime soon. I still do support the C2X project and
would love to see it move forward and become what we
all know it can be. We just need developers and
community to work together.
Sincerely,
Anthony Papillion
--- Elpidio Latorilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Anthony,
>
> whether you decide to fork or not to fork, the
> care2x will stay as a
> project.
> We have been laboring on this for a long time.
>
> If you think you can develop a better project in
> this scale, nobody can
> stop you
> from doing so. In fact I will give you a tip:
> developers will join you
> "only" if they
> see that you can create something feasible to back
> up your talk.
>
> Developers are intelligent people (in fact very
> intelligent), they will
> see through
> you very quickly. Do not fall into the wrong
> assumption that starting
> an open-source
> project (even those you only fork) is easy. It is
> not. If you had the
> impression that
> care2x project was easy, it was only because a lot
> of people have
> labored to
> make it easy "for you". Like for example: a guy is
> now struggling and
> fighting
> with a hosting company to repair everything to its
> previous status while
> you are sitting
> in front of your computer waiting for something to
> happen.
>
> If we dont know what amount of work is being done
> behind a seemingly
> "easy" project, it is
> easy to make the mistake of adding insult to injury.
>
> Good luck in your new endeavor.
>
> Elpidio
>
> Anthony Papillion wrote:
>
> >Dear Care2X Developers and Community,
> >
> >Over the last year, I've carefully monitored the
> >Care2X project with the hopes of it becoming a
> viable
> >option for use within North America. I even, at one
> >time volunteered to assist in making sure that all
> the
> >pieces were in place for North American deployment
> and
> >never received any feedback or information. That,
> >combined with the recent lack of developer
> interaction
> >with the community, has led me to believe that
> Care2X
> >is dead. Additionally, after reviewing the codebase
> >for the last few days, I'm growing increasingly
> >concerned about the code itself as much of it seems
> >fairly "hacked" together with little or no rhyme or
> >reason.
> >
> >As such, I'm seriously considering forking Care2X,
> >using what code is usable, and rewriting the large
> >portions that aren't while extending the product to
> >better meet the needs of North American hospitals
> and
> >healthcare providers. A fork, as you all know, is a
> >radical departure from the established group and
> it's
> >not something I'm lightly considering. It would be
> a
> >lot of work but I believe that the entire project
> and
> >its image would greatly benefit from having a more
> >active and involved development team seriously
> working
> >on the project and making it better.
> >
> >So what's going to happen now?
> >
> >First, I want to give the Care2X developers and
> >community the abillity to respond to this. Is
> Care2X
> >still a viable product? If so, where are all of the
> >developers and why are they not participating in
> the
> >community? What are some ideas to make Care2X
> better
> >and, developers, are you willing to listen to the
> >communities needs?
> >
> >Next, after giving everyone an adaquate chance to
> >comment on this subject and guaging if the
> developers
> >have a solid plan to fix the problems with Care2X,
> we
> >will either decide to proceed with the fork or give
> >Care2X a little longer to shape things up. I think
> >July 1 is a good enough amount of time for
> discussion.
> >
> >Developers: I do NOT WANT TO FORK this project. But
> >one cannot simply create a project, expect it to be
> >used, but never interact with the community or move
> >the project to more professional pastures. I am
> >BEGGING you to give this community some idea of
> WHERE
> >we are going, WHEN we are going there, WHAT we are
> >going to do to get there, and WHERE we are going.
> >Clear direction is needed. Can you provide it?
> >
> >Community: Obviously we all care about Care2X and
> its
> >future. Some of us are seriously wanting to move it
> >into new and exciting areas but we can't do that
> >without either a fork or more developer support. I
> ask
> >that you begin an open discussion on this list
> about
> >the issues you find with Care2X and let the
> developers
> >know what you want, need, and expect from them.
> >
> >Lastly, I understand that Care2X, like most open
> >source product, is largely a labor of love and it
> is
> >the product of many hours of volunteer time. As
> such,
> >I understand that the developers must balance their
> >work on the product with their real lives and jobs.
> I
> >am not asking for full-time development on the
> >product. I am not asking for questions to be
> answered
> >in 20 minutes or for updates to be done overnight.
> >What I am asking is for SOME developer
> participation
> >in the community and SOME active development that
> >addresses community needs.
> >
> >If anyone would like to discuss this issue further
> >with me please either email the list, email me
> >personally, or call me anytime. My contact info is
> >below.
> >
> >It is my sincere hope that Care2X can rise from its
> >current state and become a better, stronger, and
> >dominant product. It is my hope that we can all
> pull
> >it out of its slump and into a higher place. But it
> >will take a concerted effort and it is my hope that
> >that effort starts today.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >Anthony Papillion
> >Advanced Data Concets
> >
> >P: (918) 926-0139
> >E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Care2002-developers mailing list
> >Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
>
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Care2002-developers mailing list
> Care2002-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/care2002-developers
>
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
Care2002-developers mailing list
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