I love you too. Seriously tho, isn't that the logic? guantanamo is ok because the people there titare illegal combattants and therefore not entitled to prisoner of war status? I could swear I remember you saying that. If I have misunderstood the position please explain.
On /22/08, Loathe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > combatant != prisoner of war > > You should move, seriously. We don't want you. We have enough loonies > that belong here. > > Dana wrote: > > i have been trying to stay out of this because really, I don't have > > time. However let me try one more time... > > > > > >> I spent two years working with former Soviet states on energy programs and > >> I > >> often used former Russian defectors as interpreters. > > > > And what did you learn from this? You're defending the right of the > > governement to just come take you away, my friend. Really, you are. > > Because if it is ok to do this to terrorists... you need to check out > > the definition of terrorist. > > > >> In some rosy past when we were nice little American boys and girls? That's > >> a > >> fairy tale. > > > > and yet it is still true according to you below. You aren't making sense. > > > >>> We had a stance like "you can torture us, but we will not torture > >>> you"-- we WILL NOT SINK TO THAT LEVEL. > >>> > >> We still do. The perpetrators of Abu Ghraib have been tried and convicted. > >> The CIA secret jails thing has been hashed out in public and in Congress. > >> The waterboarding thing has been all over the news forever. > > > > The perpetrators of Abu Ghraib :) ha. A few soldiers who followed > > orders were sacrificed like pawns. The secret jails, the > > extraordinary renditions, the black flights have *not* been hashed > > out. You've still never heard of Maher Arar and there is still a > > fifteen year old boy at Guantanamo being held without legal > > representation because of who his family knows. > > > >> I'm implying no such thing. I'm suggesting that at the highest > >>> levels, the "definition" of torture is being tested. > >>> > >> That is why we have an indepedent judiciary, to provide clarity on the > >> limits of Executive and Legislative power. > > > > Yes and the Executive says it does not want to be reviewed by the > > judiciary. DId you sleep through the whole FISA thing? > > > >> If you believe that then you obviously haven't studied Constitutional > >> history. People are people, they do good and bad. Our structure of > >> government is designed to contain the damage that can be done by any single > >> branch of government, precisely because the Founders expected each branch > >> of > >> government to push the envelope. > > > > Yes but the Constitution you think protects us is being blatantly > > disregarded. > > > >> I don't support it. I support specific measures that are finite in scope > >> and > >> duration to combat terrorism. As I noted in another thread, this business > >> of > >> using the Patriot Act to nail Spitzer for prostitution is no good, and the > >> rules need to be changed. > > > > But see, that's just it. SInce anyone can be a terrorist -- you really > > need to check out that definition --- all those measures apply to > > *everyone.* And a measure that is for the duration of the war on > > terror might as well be eternal. > > > >> They don't have uniforms, but they definitely are combatants. Why don't you > >> ask one of the soldiers on the list if they think they guys shooting at > >> them > >> in Iraq and Afghanistan weren't combatants? > > > > But they aren't. You really haven't been paying attention, have you. > > They are not combattants and therefore the Geneva Convention is quaint > > and and they can be locked up as long as the administratoin pleases. > > If you don't believe me just ask Alberto Gonzales. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:257181 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
