I know it may be the norm, but I still don't have to like it...it's not like it was a $75 piece of software.
And I've learned from multiple upgrades in prior years of other software and systems that there're always problems with upgrading. I've witnessed them on this list. I just haven't had a compelling reason to upgrade...I've learned to live without new bells and whistles when I have a stable, productive, money-making setup. "If it ain't broke, don't upgrade"... Rick -----Original Message----- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 5:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: ASP.Net book for CF programmer >> I had about convinced myself to make the leap from 4.5, >> then Adobe decided that I had to pay $1300 while everyone >> else has to pay only about $600...just a little annoyed about that. Just to be this in perspective, had you had upgraded some of the versions in between it would have been simpler to upgrade now. Most companies have upgrade policies and prices for a limited list of prior versions (usually just a few prior and a few years). CF4.5 (which came out in 1999 I believe) is 4 or 5 versions back, and even more years back. Most companies do not provide upgrade plans for software that far back (and software that is so old that it is no longer supported), that really is the norm. --- Ben -----Original Message----- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 4:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: ASP.Net book for CF programmer Thanks for the feedback, Todd... I'm a little confuzzled about all this, too. ;o) I know there's a lot of functionality in the later versions after 4.5, but I'm not sure how many of them I really need. Mostly what I've read about on this list over the years since 4.5 has been new ways to do old things. No so much new functionality that is new in and of itself. I was drooling for Query of Query, but by the time it got here, I had learned to deal with queries in other ways. 4.5's stable...no problems there...fast enough for my small sites. And yes, I run my own servers for hosting, so I need to get the full server...I used to farm out my hosting, but got tired of dealing with unresponsive hosts that kept most of the money themselves, while I had to deal with the clients. I've begun to sell more office web apps, which, unless they host it here with me, require they purchase server hardware, OS, and, on top of that $1300 for CF...for the smaller offices I work with, that's a hard sell. It's a very small market here. I had about convinced myself to make the leap from 4.5, then Adobe decided that I had to pay $1300 while everyone else has to pay only about $600...just a little annoyed about that. The upgrade price and knowing that using asp.net I can build apps that can most likely run on clients' existing servers is a big push toward asp.net, not to mention all the free software they're giving away... Visual Web Developer Express 2005, Visual Studio Standard, Sql Server Express... Upgrade price and client cost to use my apps in-house...there's the two friction points. Rick -----Original Message----- From: Todd Rafferty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 3:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: ASP.Net book for CF programmer Rick, I have to say I'm a little confuzzled about all this. I mean, you're in CF4.5 now and ... you're claiming that $1300 is a lot to cough up for the CFMX server and that you've made plenty of money with CF4.5, etc. What happened? The development difference between CF 4 and CFMX6/7 is night and day IMHO. It's well worth the $1300 upgrade. In my opinion, even CF5 was a huge leap from 4 in terms of additional things that you can do. With 5, came the introduction of query of queries and udfs along with stability improvements. With CFMX and beyond, we're talking about flash remoting, pdf generation, access to additional java libraries that we've never had before without having to jump through hoops to get them. CFCs? A huge part of my development these days and I can't imagine having to go back to CF4/5 anymore. We still have a CF5 box here at work, I pretend it doesn't exist. Tho, sometimes for chuckles, I'll go surf some old projects of mine and groan about the old days. The company I currently work for has already moved on and we've already mentioned to the clients that we're recommending code upgrades if they want to move forward with us. We're 100% more than willing to work with them, it's up to them if they want to make the leap or not. Otherwise, we'll still continue to host/support the CF5 box until they're done clinging. If all you care about is the development process and you're not involved in hosting, why is this even a discussion? The trial edition of CFMX Server (Enterprise) is available for download and has a 2 IP restriction. That's more than enough to do development on a local box. That's free. The only thing that isn't free is the IDE that you're planning on using and as has been pointed out, there's plenty of them out there (including free ones). Do you actually do hosting? Is this the biggest concern you have? There's plenty of cheap hosting out there. Yeah, it's nice running your own box but man, don't tell me that it's not a bugger of a chore sometimes. I guess I just find it weird that it's so hard to justify an upgrade from CF4 to CFMX7, because in my opinion... there's no comparison and the new technology in CFMX is justified and easily sell-able to any client out there and will pay for itself if you knuckle down and get yourself familiar with the new stuff. You can even start learning now with the trial edition of CFMX and then decide for yourself if it's worth it. Anyway, you're so torn on this subject, yet there's a lot of answers out there if you look for them. Just offering a different, probably unwelcomed response. ~Todd -----Original Message----- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 2:18 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: ASP.Net book for CF programmer Thanks for the explanation and info, Jeff. > If you are developing Java apps, then the MyEclipse plugin is probably for you. No...I don't do anything with Java... >VS2005 has the same idea, except in most case you are paying a lot of >money for the tools. Although I'm most interested in Visual Web Designer 2005 Express, since it's designed for newbie's to that type of programming, I am getting a free copy of Visual Studio Standard for attending 3 online seminars about using ASP.NET for Cold Fusion Programmers... That, and IIS 6.0, seems to be all I'd need to work in the ASP.NET 2.0 world... I'm not too happy about that prospect, however... I've come far enough with CF to be useful in the world and make a good living. I'm not too thrilled with starting over with another language. Know of any ASP.Net Lists that I can lurk on? That's were I find out what it's really like to work with something...by listening to what the actual users are going through, not by reading promo materials. I did that with a css lists and quickly found out that I'm not touching total CSS design anytime soon...they take up all their time troubleshooting and how to make everything work with every browser out there...I'm really not interested in whether or not an Opera user can view my sites...until it becomes a dominant browser...talk about "religious fanaticism"... sheesh... Rick -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Fleitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 1:47 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: ASP.Net book for CF programmer If you buy FlexBuilder 2 when it is released and install the standalone version, you won't have to know anything about Eclipse. You are isolated from Eclipse for the most part. As Ben stated, the IDE runs on top of Eclipse. If you are using Eclipse as your primary IDE, then you can opt to install FlexBuilder as a 'plugin'. If you take this route, you already know how Eclipse works, so it is a non-issue. You just download and install the plugin. Eclipse is the Java worlds answer to MS Visual Studio, except that it is free. People build plugins (or apps) that extend the functionality of the IDE. If you are developing Java apps, then the MyEclipse plugin is probably for you. Using CF? CFEclipse is the plugin you want. Need source control? You download Subversion and the Subclipse plugin so you can maintain version control. Want to check out Ruby on Rails, download the plugin for that. You integrate all of these plugins to customize your workspace to the way you work. VS2005 has the same idea, except in most case you are paying a lot of money for the tools. They do have open source initialtives, but you won't see nearly as many. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:239723 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
