> For what it's worth, there are people who find coal mining entertaining.
Perhaps I was too quick to disparage the occupation. I hope it will continue to gain in status (and rarity). On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 at 12:45, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > For what it's worth, there are people who find coal mining entertaining. > > Both in a practical sense (actual coal miners), and in an impractical > sense (for example, computer gamers -- there's a variety of computer > games now which include "coal mining" as an activity that the players > can engage in (minecraft comes to mind here, but there's plenty of > others -- often with better graphics)). > > Food for thought? > > -- > Raul > > On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 6:08 AM Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > joseph turco writes: > > > I would like to learn an array language purely as an academic exercise > > (you can say, 'for fun') > > > > Lucky you. That's like learning coal mining for fun. > > > > "Fun" is an affective quality, not a cognitive one. It follows that > > rational argument is irrelevant. > > Try both on equal terms and decide which gives you the most fun. > > > > Which to try first? Look at > https://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/APL2JPhraseBook > > to get a quick comparison of both. > > Note: it was far easier describing APL succintly in terms of J than > > vice-versa. That tells you something. > > > > Equal terms? You can't of course. One costs money, the other doesn't. One > > makes money, the other doesn't. > > > > I spent most of my working life making a living from APL. It was an > > extremely good living: far better than coding in C/C++ or Visual Basic. > The > > choice of employer was more limited, but they were invariably more fun. > > That tells you something too. > > > > The singer, not the song? > > > > How did I fall into APL? For the same reason a young man from a coal > mining > > town falls into coal mining. "Fun" doesn't come into it. > > > > APL has made me a LOT of money. J hasn't made me a penny, and never will. > > But since retiring, I've hardly touched APL, and J now absorbs most of my > > discretionary time. That tells you something else. > > > > What? I choose to keep my counsel on this forum. But here's a hint… > > Some people go exploring the Antarctic when they don't have to. But > coding > > a project in APL is like setting out on a long journey with someone who > > starts off by deliberately shooting himself in the foot. No, that wasn't > > Ken's fault. I guess he developed J because he was as irritated as I was. > > > > But I can only guess. There are people on this forum who *know*…! > > > > So… APL or J? Things to consider: > > > > [1] If you're in an orchestra and you play both the violin and the viola, > > no matter which is your best instrument, or the one you prefer, or the > most > > fun – you'll end up playing the viola. > > > > [2] English isn't one of the world's major languages because it is > elegant, > > appealing, logical or fun. It's none of these things. It succeeds because > > of its trade connections. > > > > [3] And which dialect of English? There's an old Yiddish saying: a > > "language" is a dialect with an army and a navy. > > > > [4] Why do king penguins flourish in Antarctica? > > (a) because it's fun? > > (b) because it isn't? > > > > Wild horses wouldn't have made me learn APL. A pushy employer did. When I > > left IBM in the mid 80s I viewed APL as just one (…10?) of those arcane > > languages I've had to get by in. Then I found it offered well-paid jobs. > > > > Well, doctors don't get rich treating healthy people. But I'm being too > > harsh on APL. There are far… FAR… worse languages. (C/C++, VB, > javascript, > > Python…) > > > > When the fun stops: stop. > > > > > > On Tue, 5 Oct 2021 at 22:11, joseph turco <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Hello, question moved here from programming to chat list, > > > > > > I am not trying to start a flame war, so please understand that is not > my > > > intentions. I am looking at either learning APL or J. I am an > inexperienced > > > programmer. My reasoning is that I would like to learn an array > language > > > purely as an academic exercise (you can say, 'for fun'). I know this > is a > > > J forum, so i assume its going to be biased, but is there any reason I > > > should learn J instead of APL, or vice versa? Aside from J using ASCII > > > characters instead of 'iverson notation' (excuse me if i got that > wrong or > > > if J also falls in that category), what am i losing out on not > focusing on > > > J and instead on APL? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
