Louie,
I understand your point about "not a multitude of study materials, etc". I
can't imagine studying for any Cisco exam without having good books and
Cisco's website at my disposal. However, I don't see how having more study
material makes the the actual material less complex or performing the
hands-on of the lab less difficult. So I don't agree that having those
materials available "lowered the bar". To make an analogy to high-jumping,
I don't believe having the materials lowered the bar, I think it's more akin
to having a better coach to tell you how to jump properly to make it over
the same bar. And, in my mind, there's nothing wrong with that, since
having a better high-jumping coach doesn't "cheapen" the sport of
high-jumping.
Previously you said, "A number of study aids are now available that were not
in the past. This has somewhat lessened the difficulty of the process (as
witnessed by the backlog of people taking the lab after breezing through the
written)."
I don't believe this is a good conclusion. You statement makes the
assumption that the number of people entering the Cisco field, or at least
attempting the CCIE, has been constant. If anything, this is opposite of
the truth. I would account for the backlog for the CCIE lab with 2 things:
1) Acknowledging that more and more people are coming into this field and
attempting the CCIE.
2) Cisco has done nothing to increase their lab availability to accomodate
the new demand. If anything, they're directly responsible for the backlog
because now there are only TWO places in all of North America to take the
lab. Didn't there used to be 3 places (CA, NC, and Canada)?
I'm glad to hear you're going for your second CCIE cert. I sincerely wish
you the best of luck! I admire the fact that you look for, and aren't
afraid of a true challenge.
Mike W.
"Louie Belt" wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> When the CCIE cert first came about there were not 100+ books avilable to
> help you pass it. There were not a multitude of online labs, lab study
> guides, study groups, ... Since all of those items are now available, I
> feel the bar has been lowered. I'm for putting it back where it was.
>
> Additionally I'm studying for my second CCIE cert, I sincerely hope that
it
> is much tougher than my first. I want to maintain the value of the cert.
>
> Louie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Michael L. Williams
> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 12:09 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
>
>
> I agree with you. It's awful easy for someone who's already gotten their
> CCIE (which when they passed the lab probably could be quoted as saying
> something like "that was the most difficult thing I've ever seen") to now
> say "Sure...... make it as difficult as possible.... "
>
> I don't know many CCIEs personally. Only a couple, and both of them said
> that given the time constraints of the lab (2 days), it is extremely
> difficult. So I don't think jamming it into 1 day just because Cisco is
too
> cheap to spring for more testing centers to keep up with demand is a
> "resonable solution". Isn't this why Cisco is contemplating making it 1
> day? Not to "raise the bar" of the level of the exam, but simply because
> they're testing centers can't handle the demand. Mashing into 1 day,
IMHO,
> would be a very poor decision.
>
> Agreeing with Brad, do all of the CCIEs that are out there have a problem
> with leaving the bar where it was when you passed it? It only seems fair.
>
> Mike W.
>
> "Bradley J. Wilson" wrote in message
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > If I weren't up to the challenge, I wouldn't be on this newsgroup. Are
> you
> > up to the challenge of leaving the bar at the same height that it was
when
> > *you* passed the test? I personally think the test is difficult enough
as
> > it is. Am I a wimp because of that? Do we need to dump some dirt on
the
> > top of Everest now that it's been conquered by someone else ahead of me?
> >
> > If Cisco wants to make the test "tougher," they're well within their
> rights
> > to do so. I just hope they don't call it the "CCIE" - call it something
> > different, and reset the numbers to zero (or 1025, whichever).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Louie Belt
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 9:33 AM
> > Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
> >
> >
> > Any CCIE or CCIE candidate worth his salt would want the lab to be
> tougher.
> > A number of study aids are now available that were not in the past.
This
> > has somewhat lessened the difficulty of the process (as witnessed by the
> > backlog of people taking the lab after breezing through the written).
> > Making it tougher is just a method of counterbalancing all of the
> increased
> > study aids and maintaining the value of the CCIE cert.
> >
> > If you truly want to obtain your CCIE then you should want it to be as
> > difficult as possible, otherwise where is the value in the cert? If you
> are
> > not up to the challenge, then don't make the attempt.
> >
> > As for who should evaluate the CCIE program - most (not all)employers
> > couldn't begin to answer the questions about what is needed from a CCIE.
> > The biggest employer of CCIE's is Cisco (by far) so they should already
> have
> > an idea of what is needed. Cisco has been respectful enough of the CCIE
> > population to also ask for their input and most have given it willingly.
> >
> > My main interested is in preserving the value of the CCIE cert. I am
> > currently studying for my 2nd CCIE cert and still hope they make it
> tougher
> > (before I complete it). I also hope they make the recertification tests
> > tougher as well.
> >
> > I'm up to the challenge - are you?
> >
> >
> > Louie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > Bradley J. Wilson
> > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 3:11 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
> >
> >
> > Forgive my cynicism, but any CCIE *would* want the lab to be tougher -
> they
> > would know that any CCIEs that came along after they received their
number
> > increase the supply, thus lowering the cost of the good. ;-)
> >
> > I think Cisco ought to be asking companies who *hire* CCIEs what skills
> > *they* would like to see in those who carry the CCIE certification - not
> the
> > number-carrying CCIEs themselves.
> >
> > BJ
> >
> > P.S. And while I'm feeling cynical...can we please move the "NT vs.
UNIX"
> > nonsense to private emails or perhaps a different mail list?
Theeeeenks.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Belt, Louie
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 2:15 PM
> > Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
> >
> >
> > I filled out my survey and told them I wanted it to stay a two day lab -
> > and if anything - make it tougher. The explosion of materials available
> to
> > help people get though the written and prepare for the lab has taken
some
> of
> > the challenge out of the process in my opinion. I would prefer they
keep
> it
> > a 2 day lab, make it mean as h*** and keep the prestige in the cert. I
> also
> > told them I did not want them to stop issuing the medal for those who
> > succeed.
> >
> > Louie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: CCIE Wanna BE
> > To: Belt, Louie; '[EMAIL PROTECTED] '
> > Sent: 6/1/01 8:23 AM
> > Subject: RE: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
> >
> > So what is everyone's take?
> > --- "Belt, Louie" wrote:
> > > That is simply one possible solution. They have
> > > sent a survey out to all of
> > > the CCIE's to get their feedback and suggestions.
> > >
> > > Louie
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: CCIE Wanna BE
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: 6/1/01 5:35 AM
> > > Subject: Cisco moving to a one day lab? [7:6735]
> > >
> > > A Cisco manager/CCIE told me that Cisco was planing
> > > on
> > > moving from the two day CCIE lab, to a one day
> > > (because of the back log). But the 1 day isn't
> > > going
> > > to be easier, it's going to be harder....
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
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