At 3:10 AM +0000 1/3/03, nrf wrote: >""Jim Newton"" wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... >> I have taken all of the classes listed below while in the engineering >school >> at University of Wisconsin. >> >> I know that there was not one of them that demanded the attention to >detail >> and total commitment that was required to get my CCIE. I carried a 4.0 >> through almost all of those classes while barely cracking a book. I wish I >> could have said the same about my CCIE. Then I wouldn't have had to ignore >> my wife and son for the last year and a half. >> >> I am not knocking a degree, because I feel it is as important if not more >so >> than my certification. But to say that the degree is tougher is not >> necessarily true. It is comparing apples to oranges. The degree is almost >> all book knowledge where if you can regurgitate the correct answer without >> totally understanding it you pass. Try to pass the lab without a complete >> understanding of the topics covered.
If people haven't gotten my actual message, it's the knowledge and performance that counts later in one's career. Certifications are useful in getting first jobs in support. Incidentally, people might be interested in reading "The Psychology of Computer Programming" by Weisberg, now in a revised edition. He presents significant data that people tend to be very good at design, at coding, or troubleshooting, but the mindsets are different and few people are good at them all. It's easy to extend this to networking. > >Uh, this does not follow. How many CCIE's really really understand, say, >BGP or OSPF? No, not just how to configure it, but how it really actually >works. Give you an example - I would be hard pressed to find a lot of >CCIE's who can explain to me how Dijkstra really works. Some can, but I >would say that most, especially the newer CCIE's, cannot. How many can >actually explain how a BGP RIB actually works? A Loc-RIB, an Adj-RIB-In, or an Adj-RIB-Out, as opposed to the RIB and FIB? :-) >Heck, I would venture to >say that many of them have never even tried to read the relevant RFC's - and >if you've never read the RFC's, it's difficult to claim that you actually >understand how the technology really works. > >Learning how to configure something is far far different from actually >understanding it. A mechanic might be able to fix an engine, but a >mechanical engineer can actually design a new one. > >>But at the same time, the CCIE focuses >> on a narrow range of topics where any good degree forces you to learn a >wide >> breadth of information. >> >> Anyone who knocks either without having achieved them both is not doing >> justice to the people who worked hard to achieve what they have done. I >know >> of engineers who said their CCIE was harder than their degree and vice >> versa. So give everyone credit for what they have achieved and don't knock >> them for what they haven't. > >Nobody's knocking anybody for anything. I'm just merely presenting the >facts. Out of all the companies in the world, the one with the most respect >for the CCIE program is, surprise surprise, Cisco. Yet if you look at >Cisco's top management, you'll find a lot of degrees, but no CCIE's >whatsoever. Draw your own conclusion about what that means. What conclusions would you draw from the fact that CCIEs are quite rare among Cisco product developers and product managers? Cisco, as opposed, say, to HP, historically has marketing executives at the top, not engineers. Other companies have other cultures. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=60182&t=59481 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
