Thanks RickThat is very much what played out this season. I believe the handicap was 111 and he got three seconds and dropped to 114 for the modificationHis modification did not adversely affect the boat,,,,she is fast and points like crazy. Often outpointing etchelles We sail in Lake St-Louis / Montreal area, which is part of the St-Laurence River(My former boat was a C&C24.....presently have a J30) That is the challenge in PHRF racing,....the fleet can be very mixed. In the first race of the club championship I managed to edge out the Frers to the windard mark and sat to windward of him for 1/2 the race. But he managed to get ahead by the leward mark and once he had clean air,...he was goneI read one review that had them in a class with faster boats and they performed poorly (did not have clean air) but became the top boat when they changed class and were in front of the fleetI guess I will have to pull up our socks or buy that C&C37+ I keep eyeing ThanksTarasMontreal,QC
From: rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 23:38:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating US Sailing shows the PHRF ratings nationally for the Freres 33 run from 108 to 114, with the national average being 108. PHRF of the Chesapeake has one boat listed at 114. I looked at NC-PHRF for a comparison (our ratings are usually 3 seconds lower, since our PHRF group thinks we have higher average winds than the Chesapeake) but there are no boats listed. Where you sail can make a big difference in the ratings. I would think the 108 listed in US Sailing would probably be for a windy area like LIS, New England, or Northern California. I had the keel on my 38 shortened by 10” to 5’3”. I took off 800#, and added a torpedo from Mars Metals that weighed 1150#. The additional weight brings the boat weight up to 15,000. But I bet it weighs a lot more in cruising trim. NC-PHRF gave me 3 seconds (from 117 to 120) because of an anticipated loss in pointing. I don’t notice the boat being any stiffer, but the size of the torpedo was determined based on the weight and depth of keel removed, with the objective of maintaining the previous stability. I can still point up to under 30 degrees apparent, so I have not noticed any real loss or gain from the change. Genoa tracks closer to the rail would logically increase sheeting angles and limit pointing, though they might open up the leach of the sail on a reach. I don’t think PHRF would adjust a rating based on this. Your local PHRF group will look at the performance of the boat over a period of time, and can elect to adjust the rating. Most commonly that is done when a boat owner applies for an increase due to his record, or to a change in the boat. But it can happen in cases where a competing skipper shows evidence that the boat is doing a whole bunch better than the rating would indicate it should. It’s called a Performance Handicap after all. Rick BrassWashington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of TARAS IWANYCKI Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 7:58 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating I have a general question about boat dynamics and related phrf ratingI have been racing against a Frers33 this season, a first-time boat owner with green crew, that cleaned up and won almost everything in all conditionsMany of us are asking whether is handicap was correct.The OD rating for the boat is 114 and the owner claimed this for the seasonThis boat had it's keel depth shortened by 6-8 inches and added a bulb to equal the lost keel weight. From what I understand, if you add a bulb to your keel, it will stiffen the boat's feel....correct? But...1) What impact would cutting the keel down and adding a bulb to offset the lost ballast do? Would she be faster? slower? Point higher? Lower?2) This boat also has an additional genoa track closer to the rail. Should this affect the handicap?3) What is the official way of determining the correct handicap? Is there an official body to address? ThanksTaras _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
