Ron In my experience when you are racing without a spinnaker in the same fleet that allows spinnaker you need a substantial and very difficult to quantify handicap adjustment system. I would almost say that any adjustment is without good reason.either the boats in a fleet use spinnakers or not, there is no good and fair way to compensate mathematically for that on a consistent basis IMHO
Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _____ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ron Casciato Sent: November 12, 2012 1:18 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Rick: My 38MKII here in NE is rated at 120R and 132C which is consistent with the 12 sec difference for a masthead rig. The base rating was 114R but was adjusted 6 seconds for an above deck working roller furling giving it a "recreational handicap adjustment" That adjustment allows only 2 headsails sails.....1 above 110 and 1 at or below 110; and only one nylon spinnaker. That adjustment makes my "racing" handicap 120 and the 12 sec's cruising rating goes to 132. However.....since Asym spinnakers do not result in a penalty and if you only use that spinnaker....you can claim "no spinnaker pole" and get another 9 secs added to your Racing rating......no change for the cruising rating , of course. Therefore I end up at a racing rating of 129 and a cruising rating of 132....further since our Hingham Fleet allows spinnaker and non-spinnaker boats to race in the same fleet....the "cruising" boats get an additional 10% of their cruising rating for the mixed fleet.....so I end up in that case with a racing rating of 129 and a cruising rating for mixed fleets at 145. (132+13.2).. You can imagine the discussion at the dock or at the starting line on days with lots of wind or very little wind about how we'll sail that race...... Here's the link to the NEPHRF handicap adjustments page....it makes your head hurt to absorb all that's here..... http://www.phrfne.org/page/handicapping/handicap_adjustments Best, Ron Casciato Impromptu C&C 38MKIIC..'77 Mass Bay _____ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 11:09 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Dwight; The NC PHRF base rating is 117 for the 38 Mk1 or Mk2, and 126 for the 35 Mk2. 9 seconds difference is consistent with the spread in your area. I presume you have more wind than we do. When I was racing regularly, my rating was 120 because of the keel mod. I raced against a 35 Mk2 that was rated at 126 and we were fairly evenly matched. I was faster upwind, and could outpoint him by 3 or 4 degrees, and he was faster downwind. Race outcome was largely a matter of the time difference to the upwind mark. Pointing depends on the wind - the higher the apparent wind, the better I can point. In typical winds (10 to 15 apparent around here; say 8 to 10 true.) I can point to 28 or 29 apparent. Above 28 I am pinched and lose speed. The boat is fastest, according to the GPS which shows the velocity towards the mark and not true VMG, when footed off slightly to about 30 apparent. Again, that seems to be pretty consistent with your experience. I just looked at the current NC-PHRF information on line, and I see that The Edge (the 35 Mk2) is now rated at 129, possibly because of the above deck furler. I also see that Delaney, a 38 in Oriental that belongs to another of the listers, is rated at 129 as well. Perhaps I should go back and get a new PHRF rating? I never did apply for an adjustment for the fixed 2 blade prop, and now I have a 140% roller furling genoa that tacks 18" above the deck, a non-adjustable baby stay, a radically undersized cruising A-sail for a spinnaker, and a radar arch and dinghy davits on the stern. I'm pretty sure all that would justify a 126 rating. I wonder how Delaney got to 129? Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:58 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel mods vs Phrf Rating Rick You say "I can still point up to under 30 degrees apparent," My 35 MKII will sail at 30 degrees to apparent wind but I have found that my VMG (wind) is highest when I sail at about 33 degrees to apparent. I don't have the numbers for all of my headsails because I have only been carrying my furling 135 since I installed my Raymarine ST60 system which gave me the ability to display VMG(wind) on the fly. I would expect that I may get different results with different sized headsails and different wind and or sea conditions; like with my racing 150 in say 10-12 apparent and flat seas VMG (wind) may be best at 30 apparent or below. By New England PHRF my 35 MKII has a base rating of 120, slightly slower than your 38MKI (111 by New England numbers) but you race it at 120. My question to you is: do you find pointing at under 30 degrees to apparent to result in your best VMG to weather under all conditions? Dwight Veinot C&C 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5390 - Release Date: 11/12/12
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