In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Gian-Carlo Pascutto
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
Don Dailey wrote:
On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 17:26 +0200, Rémi Coulom wrote:
Basti Weidemyr wrote:
What would you have done in a case like this? :)
You could not declare that game a win for the computer and survive.
Yes, and I really hate this. You have a situation where the actual
winner has to resign the game in order to not be ridiculed as being
petty. And is the human player supposed to feel good about his
"victory?"
The statements earlier point to the indication that the human player
might not even have been really aware that there was a time limit.
That shouldn't have happened. But I think this entire discussion is
part of a larger problem, a cultural problem:
To the pro's, the games against computers are probably halfway a joke.
The computers obviously so weak that having to think seriously to win a
game would be an insult. You can beat them with silly handicaps even if
they run on insanely big computers. Can't consider such a game serious.
To the program authors, the computers are their pride and what they
spend all their available time on. A good performance fills them with
joy and pride and a bad performance makes them look like this:
http://www.morbo.org/pics/Mainz2008/DSC_7533.jpg
(picture taken by my girlfriend after I scored very badly during the
first half of a computerchess tournament)
To a programmer, such a game against a stronger player is _always_ DEAD
SERIOUS and he or she will do anything reasonable to win.
If this means flagging a professional player who didn't manage his or
her time well, then be sure that is what we'll do to claim victory. And
good luck explaining afterwards why the program didn't won a game that
was won by the rules. To hell with what the crowd thinks, they were on
the side of the human to start with anyway :)
I put "programmers" in quotes because this isn't actually about
programmers only. Imagine you are a weak player that gets the right to
play in a simul (or in go terms, a handicap game) against Kasparov (or
let's say Cho Chikun in go terms?).
For Kasparov/Cho the game is a joke, an aside they do as a part of
their living as professional players. To the weak player, such a game
is a very rare opportunity.
Imagine winning the simul/handicap game! For sure, for the professional
this is the result of a slight lapse in concentration, nothing to worry
about.
But good luck explaining the weaker player that the game was not
serious - most likely, it's the only game he'll talk about for the rest
of his life!
A game between players of very different strengths is never "not
serious" to the weaker player. PARTICULARLY not if he won (by any
stretch of the regulations).
However, this programmer at least is very happy that Ms. Xiao Ai Lin
gave his program enough attention to pound it to pieces.
Now, if I read in the tournament report that the second human-computer
game didn't happen because "The pro showed a lack of enthusiasm, and
did not turn up in the room at the time it was meant to happen.", it
might as well have read: "The pro drove a stick through the heart of
the programmer while telling him he is an insignificant being not
worthy of any attention and certainly not half an hour of his time."
Not serious, eh?
Ever seen a crazy programmer with a pitchfork? Arrr!
--
GCP
PS. I might have exaggerated "ever so slightly" in this post to get my
point across, and I apologize in advance to all the (go) programmers,
go players and go tournament directors I offended and who think I
unjustly spoke in their name.
I think you expressed things remarkably well. (Is English really not
your native language?)
I don't have an image of you for
http://www.computer-go.info/db/operson.php?a=Pascutto%2C+Gian-Carlo
Will you mind if I use that one? :-)
Nick
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--
Nick Wedd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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