[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Irrelevent. No one is arguing that existence under communist rule is
> a holiday -- or even better than existence in the U.S. The statement is
> simply that the average american knows dick about the conditions that
> exist in other nations, and as an aside, is oblivious to the conditions
> he himself lives in.
Well, OK...thats a null statement. Most people have no idea what conditions
are in other nations. Why should they care? (unless they dont like where
they are living and want to move).
>
> Americans condemn Communism usually without even having read the Communist
> Manifesto; and if they HAVE read the Manifesto, they say something good
Talk about your broad brushes. I know a lot of Americans who have read
the "Manifesto" long enough to be revolted by it. But Joe Sixpack
also lives by its tenets without realizing that what they are. Many
strictures by which Americans now live were originally tenets of the
US Communist platform including progessive income taxation. Most Americans
are so dependent, so hopelessly inurred with the current lifestyle that
they wouldn't recognize communism if it bit them in the ass.
> and stupid like "sounds great on paper, but doesn't work in the real
> world." Americans condemn Communism without knowing shit about Marxist
> tenents, and without knowing (or even reading about) the realities of
> life under a Stalinist/Maoist rule.
>
Lets be real up front here. Unless you have been out to lunch recently
Communism is an experiment that failed so miserably it exterminated
almost 100 million human beings last century. If that were a disease
we would have government funded programs to wipe it out. Actively
trying to infect people with it would land you in jail.
I would love to see a Memetic analysis of Communism. I would expect
that it would be substantially similar to the barbaric crusades of
early and middle Christianity. Killing en masse to loot, pillage
and convert the heathens for the greater glory of god^h^h^hstate.
>
> I'd take issue with that, in a round-about way. Uncle Sam steals your coin
> because there are a shit-load of Americans out there with less-than-dick
> for resources. These unfortunate souls might have taken up, say, basket
> weaving as a hobby rather than computer programming (unlike the majority
> of people who are likely to read this list) and as such (since hand-made
> baskets aren't in particularly high demand these days) are doomed to
> taking shitbox minimum wage jobs, probably part-time with no benefits;
Wow. People making choices and seeing what happens. If you don't think
that basket weaving is a good profession, do something else so that you
can make more money. Else don't complain.
> since we all know that companies will work your ass 39 hours a week to
> keep you from getting benefits, while maximizing their efficiency.
>
Buy your own goddamn benefits. Last time I checked they were $3000/year
for a nominal family of 3. Benefits are not free. That are not free to
provide.
> Capitalism, with its emphasis on the profit margin can't always afford
> to give the working poor a decent wage, therefore we need social programs
> to help the honest, working poor.
And communism can give the working poor a decent wage? Of course the
downside to your fantasy is that you would have to live in China or
the old Soviet Union. No thanks. I've seen desparately poor people
in Anguilla and they seemed happy enough. At least their government
doesn't kill one in four.
> The name escapes me at the moment, but some Capitalist asshole/theorist
> once said something along the lines of:
>
> "The answer to our question (what do we do about the poor) is simple:
> nothing. We need an impoverished working class to supply cheap labor to
> our corporations. They must, after all, turn a profit."
These people need low wage jobs because without them you have capital
flight to China (home of your beloved socialists) where the average
worker makes a hell of a lot less. Of course thats because they are
virtual slaves to the "People's Army". And that is the system you
would prefer?
> Michael J. Graffam ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
> "Who watches the watchmen?" - Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347
Indeed. You need to take a course in formal logic (propositional calculus)
as you don't see the implications of your own quotes.
Juvenal is saying "who watches the elites?". In any communist system "those
who know best" must be watched. Of course as soon as you watch them you
start your vacation in beautiful sunny Siberia. And that is a one-way
ticket.
