Other ideas/opinions here?
On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:05 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote:
> Just to comment. I do not think everyone will be able to upgrade (and
> if they don't the "discussion" route is still possible).
>
> This is more of a "psychological barrier" that I am talking about
> here. I've learned recently that making things "easy and smooth" is
> not always the best approach. Sometimes it is good to create a bit of
> friction, to make people think.
>
> Imagine you are a user.
>
> If you see your version on the list, you immediately assume that it's
> ok to create an issue - and you don't even think about alternatives.
> When you don't see it, there is a non-zero chance you will pause for a
> moment, and maybe (just maybe) you will see that the recommendation is
> to upgrade just above the list, when you will be looking for
> alternatives.
>
> And there is no chance to achieve 100% accurate behaviour change (and
> it's not my intention).
>
> * There will be people who will add their version in the description
> ("actually I am using 2.3.2 but could not choose it")
> * There will be people who will not even write that and choose another
> version (but those people possibly already chose a random version from
> the too-long list - we can't prevent that).
> * There will be people who will open "discussion" instead (which is
> cool and that's my intention as well - we can always bring it back as
> an issue)
>
> * Finally - there will be people who will realise - ok, maybe indeed I
> should upgrade (mostly those will be smaller installations, easy to
> upgrade, but those people maybe did not realise there is a new version
> that they can easily upgrade to) -> THIS is precisely the group of
> people I want to address with the change.
>
> So my goal is - if there are people from the latest group who will
> pause at the issue entering, and who will instead perform a group ->
> my goal is achieved. I think even if it is a small group of people,
> they tend to open more issues (as they are less experienced) and their
> issue descriptions are of a lesser quality - which means that
> diagnosing and helping them takes more time. So if you can make those
> - even small - group people into upgrading before reporting an issue
> (and potentially not reporting the issue at all), this is a win-win
> situation. They resolve their problems faster, we have more time and
> less issues to look at.
>
> J.
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 1:24 PM Elad Kalif <elad...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > In general I agree but in I don't think this is going to work as you
> expect because not all users are able to upgrade to the latest minor
> version easily.
> > I can say for myself I'm on 2.2.3 and I can not upgrade - even not to
> 2.2.5
> > The reason is not related to Airflow at all but more to an internal
> policy (I can explain why but not sure it's relevant for this discussion)
> >
> > I am concerned that limiting the list will result in false reports of
> versions which may cause confusion for us.
> >
> > That said, I think we can consider just removing all 2.0 and 2.1 series
> from the list.
> > The reason I'm suggesting this is - everytime I see an issue on these
> versions I ask "is it reproducible on main/latest version?" and wait for
> the user to reply.
> > So we can explain that in the case of 2.0 and 2.1 series bug reports we
> ask users to check the issue on the latest version and submit the bug
> report on that version.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 12:35 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> (second line should be 2.3.2 -> for a few days after 2.3.3 is released
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:34 AM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hello everyone,
> >> >
> >> > I've looked at some issues raised recently and I have an idea on how
> >> > to make diagnosis of problems raised by our users a bit more
> >> > "efficient". It should also help to address "version" proliferation ve
> >> > have in the issue template.
> >> >
> >> > The list grows longer and longer the more releases we make, however -
> >> > more often than not whenever someone reports an issue on (say 2.2.1),
> >> > and we "suspect" the problem might be solved already we suggest the
> >> > users to upgrade first to at least latest in 2.2.* line and see if it
> >> > works.
> >> >
> >> > As counterintuitive as it seems for an engineer, it might often be the
> >> > faster solution - similarly like "bisecting" is a good way of finding
> >> > a solution without knowing the root cause is, upgrading to the latest
> >> > version in the line might often be the best idea to solve a problem.
> >> > Maybe we do not know the root cause, but if the problem is solved. It
> >> > means that the result is achieved (i.e. problem solved) and the
> >> > problem has been investigated and solved (or maybe it was solved
> >> > accidentally but it does not make it "less solved").
> >> >
> >> > Now - maybe we should consider to build our list of versions this way
> >> > (Compare it to the current long list we have there now).
> >> >
> >> > * 2.3.3 -> latest
> >> > * 2.3.3 -> for a few days after 2.3.3 is released
> >> > * 2.2.5
> >> > * 2.1.4
> >> > * 2.0.2
> >> > * main (development)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > And update the note above similar to:
> >> >
> >> > Only Airflow 2 is supported for bugs. If you do not see your version
> >> > here please upgrade to the latest version in your Y.X line and check
> >> > if your issue is solved there before reporting or open discussion
> >> > instead.
> >> >
> >> > Upgrading to the latest bugfix version should generally always happen.
> >> > If the user does not do it, they miss the latest bug-fixes in the line
> >> > and risk really nothing.
> >> >
> >> > I think this might have some nice effects:
> >> >
> >> > * people might upgrade earlier
> >> > * no time lost on diagnosing of already solved issues by both -
> >> > reporting users and those who try to help
> >> > * stronger communication of "we really support only latest versions
> >> > from the line
> >> > * potentially faster rollout and pressure on managed versions of
> >> > Airflow to upgrade to the latest bugfix - as their users might start
> >> > asking the questions to them rather than to us if they do not see the
> >> > version on the list.
> >> >
> >> > WDYT?
> >> >
> >> > J.
>
