To focus on a possible solution - I created a PR with the removal of all
the versions but the latest from a given branch and updated the description
- https://github.com/apache/airflow/pull/25480
Let me know what you think.
J.
On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 4:52 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote:
> Other ideas/opinions here?
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 2:05 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote:
>
>> Just to comment. I do not think everyone will be able to upgrade (and
>> if they don't the "discussion" route is still possible).
>>
>> This is more of a "psychological barrier" that I am talking about
>> here. I've learned recently that making things "easy and smooth" is
>> not always the best approach. Sometimes it is good to create a bit of
>> friction, to make people think.
>>
>> Imagine you are a user.
>>
>> If you see your version on the list, you immediately assume that it's
>> ok to create an issue - and you don't even think about alternatives.
>> When you don't see it, there is a non-zero chance you will pause for a
>> moment, and maybe (just maybe) you will see that the recommendation is
>> to upgrade just above the list, when you will be looking for
>> alternatives.
>>
>> And there is no chance to achieve 100% accurate behaviour change (and
>> it's not my intention).
>>
>> * There will be people who will add their version in the description
>> ("actually I am using 2.3.2 but could not choose it")
>> * There will be people who will not even write that and choose another
>> version (but those people possibly already chose a random version from
>> the too-long list - we can't prevent that).
>> * There will be people who will open "discussion" instead (which is
>> cool and that's my intention as well - we can always bring it back as
>> an issue)
>>
>> * Finally - there will be people who will realise - ok, maybe indeed I
>> should upgrade (mostly those will be smaller installations, easy to
>> upgrade, but those people maybe did not realise there is a new version
>> that they can easily upgrade to) -> THIS is precisely the group of
>> people I want to address with the change.
>>
>> So my goal is - if there are people from the latest group who will
>> pause at the issue entering, and who will instead perform a group ->
>> my goal is achieved. I think even if it is a small group of people,
>> they tend to open more issues (as they are less experienced) and their
>> issue descriptions are of a lesser quality - which means that
>> diagnosing and helping them takes more time. So if you can make those
>> - even small - group people into upgrading before reporting an issue
>> (and potentially not reporting the issue at all), this is a win-win
>> situation. They resolve their problems faster, we have more time and
>> less issues to look at.
>>
>> J.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 1:24 PM Elad Kalif <elad...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > In general I agree but in I don't think this is going to work as you
>> expect because not all users are able to upgrade to the latest minor
>> version easily.
>> > I can say for myself I'm on 2.2.3 and I can not upgrade - even not to
>> 2.2.5
>> > The reason is not related to Airflow at all but more to an internal
>> policy (I can explain why but not sure it's relevant for this discussion)
>> >
>> > I am concerned that limiting the list will result in false reports of
>> versions which may cause confusion for us.
>> >
>> > That said, I think we can consider just removing all 2.0 and 2.1 series
>> from the list.
>> > The reason I'm suggesting this is - everytime I see an issue on these
>> versions I ask "is it reproducible on main/latest version?" and wait for
>> the user to reply.
>> > So we can explain that in the case of 2.0 and 2.1 series bug reports
>> we ask users to check the issue on the latest version and submit the bug
>> report on that version.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 12:35 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> (second line should be 2.3.2 -> for a few days after 2.3.3 is released
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jul 21, 2022 at 11:34 AM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello everyone,
>> >> >
>> >> > I've looked at some issues raised recently and I have an idea on how
>> >> > to make diagnosis of problems raised by our users a bit more
>> >> > "efficient". It should also help to address "version" proliferation
>> ve
>> >> > have in the issue template.
>> >> >
>> >> > The list grows longer and longer the more releases we make, however -
>> >> > more often than not whenever someone reports an issue on (say 2.2.1),
>> >> > and we "suspect" the problem might be solved already we suggest the
>> >> > users to upgrade first to at least latest in 2.2.* line and see if it
>> >> > works.
>> >> >
>> >> > As counterintuitive as it seems for an engineer, it might often be
>> the
>> >> > faster solution - similarly like "bisecting" is a good way of finding
>> >> > a solution without knowing the root cause is, upgrading to the latest
>> >> > version in the line might often be the best idea to solve a problem.
>> >> > Maybe we do not know the root cause, but if the problem is solved. It
>> >> > means that the result is achieved (i.e. problem solved) and the
>> >> > problem has been investigated and solved (or maybe it was solved
>> >> > accidentally but it does not make it "less solved").
>> >> >
>> >> > Now - maybe we should consider to build our list of versions this way
>> >> > (Compare it to the current long list we have there now).
>> >> >
>> >> > * 2.3.3 -> latest
>> >> > * 2.3.3 -> for a few days after 2.3.3 is released
>> >> > * 2.2.5
>> >> > * 2.1.4
>> >> > * 2.0.2
>> >> > * main (development)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > And update the note above similar to:
>> >> >
>> >> > Only Airflow 2 is supported for bugs. If you do not see your version
>> >> > here please upgrade to the latest version in your Y.X line and check
>> >> > if your issue is solved there before reporting or open discussion
>> >> > instead.
>> >> >
>> >> > Upgrading to the latest bugfix version should generally always
>> happen.
>> >> > If the user does not do it, they miss the latest bug-fixes in the
>> line
>> >> > and risk really nothing.
>> >> >
>> >> > I think this might have some nice effects:
>> >> >
>> >> > * people might upgrade earlier
>> >> > * no time lost on diagnosing of already solved issues by both -
>> >> > reporting users and those who try to help
>> >> > * stronger communication of "we really support only latest versions
>> >> > from the line
>> >> > * potentially faster rollout and pressure on managed versions of
>> >> > Airflow to upgrade to the latest bugfix - as their users might start
>> >> > asking the questions to them rather than to us if they do not see the
>> >> > version on the list.
>> >> >
>> >> > WDYT?
>> >> >
>> >> > J.
>>
>
