Greg, look at below stats https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/Survey+Results+-+2021+August
On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 8:21 PM Saransh Sharma <sara...@muellners.org> wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 7:52 PM Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 02:00:52PM +0200, Muellners ApS wrote: >> > *"When late Stephen Hawkings wrote scientific papers, the papers would >> > get peer reviewed & then published. What incredible and amazing ideas, >> yet >> > peer reviewed. What a humble human being! I now wonder if he had started >> > self approving his own talks. How much humanity would then have >> discovered >> > about black holes?"* >> >> Rich has already explained that we allow self-approval since track >> chairs are subject matter experts, and we want their talks. This has >> been the position for two decades. Your notion of peer-reviewed talks >> is not the chosen model. So you can stop beating this dead horse, and >> move on with contributing to Fineract, instead of complaining about >> the now-finished conference. >> > Why not change that ? > >> >> > *???Governance of "Intellectual Property" generated by many developers, >> > across the world, and which is adopted by the Financial services sector, >> > who all seek that the financial technology, which they work with or >> adopt, >> > is truly free from any influence of "For Profit" stakeholders.??? I am >> sad >> > to say that what has come to my attention, is perhaps not the industry >> > defining standards of open source IP and project management.* >> >> Most F/OSS projects are developed by people with financial interest in >> the outcome of those projects. Nothing new there. >> > That's not true. Actually some projects do work for larger mission than > only serving financial interests . to name few , MIFOS is one of them,and > Muellners Foundation is also one of them. I can name more. > >> >> > *Now that we are here, I'm encouraging non presumptive, empathetic, >> patient >> > and peaceful dialogue, perhaps exercising a bit of restraint, (most >> likely >> >> You and your peers at Muellsner are exhibiting none of these traits. >> > Wrong name its. Muellners Foundation Actually look at the emails above, we > have been quite frankly not attacking anyone! > >> >> >... >> > 1. Chair Appointment: A Track chair(TC) appointment was not discussed on >> > this list. >> >> Yes, it was. Rich provided a link. Move along. >> >> >... >> > *I **would like to invite the Board to help us understand whether they >> have >> > appointed a single person as TC, on PMC???s advice, and in absence of >> the >> > community being able to exercise its decision making ability on this >> list* >> >> The Board is wholly uninvolved in the TC process. That was the PMC and >> the VP Conferences. The Board delegated it, so it doesn't care, and >> you'll get no action from them on this. >> >> > 2. Review of Proposals: The Track committee (if it only contained a >> single >> > person) has forgotten to post any invitation/access to the Proposal >> Review >> > Console for "peer review". >> > >> > The community may feel excluded if a process lets a single person go >> > through proposals and scientific ideas of others, and without following >> the >> > Apache way of decision making, then I am seriously alarmed by the >> presence >> > of such processes in this Non for profit ASF???s activities. >> >> You are making up your own definition of how the track chair operates. >> It does not match reality, and you and your Muellsner colleagues are >> the only ones complaining. This model of selection is fine and >> appropriate for a non-profit charity such as the ASF. >> > Yeah because if others complain, you will ask them to code :) > >> >> > 3. The PMC self nomination exercise by Saransh, Bruce and others is >> nothing >> > but a healthy demonstration. What they are possibly demonstrating is the >> > finiteness to self approvals and self nominations in this Apache >> community. >> > As we can see, the first PMC is constituted by the board and nominations >> > thereafter only by an existing member. The chair itself is an ASF >> officer. >> > (Hope the chair is not made by cutting more wood though.) PMCs play a >> vital >> > role in managing the project affairs & representing the project >> community. >> > PMC actions are also sequentially ratified by the Board, on the premise >> of >> > "Quarterly Board Report" and a private mailing list amongst other tools. >> > >> > *The nature of my objections bring me to see a lesser inclusive >> > representation of the project community by its PMC. Does this mean that >> the >> > Board of ASF now holds a fiduciary responsibility to respond to these >> > objections? * >> >> You are demonstrating your lack of knowledge of how the ASF operates, >> and why it operates this way. You should probably do more observation >> and asking question, rather than stating "it is wrong". The Board does >> not ratify decisions (it has delegated that decision-making), and the >> Board holds no fiduciary responsibility because there are no money >> flows within the projects. >> > I think we need to move beyond words, Greg it's about setting things in a > direction rather than now right and wrong. > >> > I am sorry to say but we may have failed to establish some of the best >> > enterprising, socially inclined & sustainable practices for this open >> > source *financial technology *project. >> >> To your perception, yes. But as I stated in elsewhere in this thread, >> the Foundation has demonstrated this community model successfully for >> over two decades. > > >> > As many members, including some of the Board Members of ASF, have >> > deliberated over this thread, I welcome this as a healthy dialogue(read >> not >> > dispute) in the hope that these gaps are mitigated by this community, in >> >> You are the only person disputing the conference process and the >> governance model that is in place. I am one person saying that you >> have no idea what you're talking about. Others may agree. The PMC may >> agree, take no position, or ask you to just move along. >> >> I suggest you start contributing to the code, rather than worry about >> the now-finished conference or the governance model. You cannot change >> either, but you can demonstrate that you are a positive contributor to >> the community. >> > I think , prove that positive contribution by the virtue of code? I mean > are there other methods to prove that you contribute ? > >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> > > > -- > Thanks and regards, > > Saransh Sharma > Research Partner > > This mail is governed by Muellners® IT policy. > The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents > may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from > disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if > this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert > the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any > attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents > of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly > prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be > monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure > compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. 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