At this point we might as well just chat in the dev hangout tomorrow. Today 
I'll focus on some more testing and documentation.

On Mar 3, 2015, at 12:02 PM, Karl Heinz Marbaise <khmarba...@gmx.de> wrote:

> Hi Jason,
> 
> at the moment i have 09:00 o'clock pm ...(21:00 o'clock) CET...
> 
> I'm available ....
> 
> 
> On 3/3/15 4:15 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>> Today in the afternoon here I can be around after 20h. Yesterday didn't 
>> work. Karl-Heinz what's your schedule looking like?
>> 
>> On Mar 1, 2015, at 11:14 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> wrote:
>> 
>>> I should be there (after 20h, Paris time)
>>> I'd like to improve docs on new features (like extensions model)
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Hervé
>>> 
>>> Le dimanche 1 mars 2015 15:38:32 Jason van Zyl a écrit :
>>>> We can just sync up in IRC and pop in a hangout if people are interested.
>>>> I'll sift through JIRA in the morning. I'm in California so I'll try to get
>>>> up a bit earlier so it's not the end of your day by the time we get around
>>>> to meeting.
>>>> On Mar 1, 2015, at 1:17 PM, Karl Heinz Marbaise <khmarba...@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jason,
>>>>> 
>>>>> are those changes you made already public in branches? So it's possible to
>>>>> take a look into it...
>>>>> 
>>>>> And a hangout tomorrow sounds great...I'm interested in...
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> Karl Heinz
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/1/15 10:06 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm done rebasing and merging my changes into master here locally. But I
>>>>>> still have a day or two of testing and a day of writing documentation.
>>>>>> There are also a couple APIs I'm not super happy with so I might alter
>>>>>> those slightly before the final release.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So if anyone wants to jump in a hangout tomorrow to chat about other bits
>>>>>> we want to try and do for 3.3.0 I'm game. I also need to go through and
>>>>>> find all references to 3.2.6 and change them to 3.3.0. There are a few
>>>>>> ITs that depend directly on 3.2.6-SNAPSHOT so all that needs to be
>>>>>> looked at as well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So I think we're looking at a few more days if anyone wants to get in
>>>>>> small fixes.>>
>>>>>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 7:37 AM, Jason van Zyl <ja...@takari.io> wrote:
>>>>>>> Great, thanks. I'm just working away on the work I'd like to get in. So
>>>>>>> tentatively hope to be done this weekend.>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 7:03 AM, Andreas Gudian <andreas.gud...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm done with my changes (documented in MNG-5776), and it seems to work
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> no at least the java process is started with the right parameters and
>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>> script variables leak out into the cmd console... ;-)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> @Igor: thanks for checking up, I overlooked your second commit with the
>>>>>>>> change of the VM-argument name.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 2015-02-26 18:07 GMT+01:00 Jason van Zyl <ja...@takari.io>:
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2015, at 3:49 AM, Andreas Gudian <andreas.gud...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I can handle that, but not before the weekend.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Jason, does that conflict with your schedule for the release?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> No dire rush on my side and I have two feature branches to merge
>>>>>>>>> anyway so
>>>>>>>>> take your time. Happy to have the help.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps we just say that we drop the support for old Windows versions
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 3.3.0 and do the actual work that removes the support from the bat
>>>>>>>>>> files
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> the next minor release?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I would imagine that no one out there cares for Windows 98/ME anyway
>>>>>>>>>> ;-).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Am Donnerstag, 26. Februar 2015 schrieb Anders Hammar :
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 8:16 AM, Stephen Connolly <
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 26, 2015, Anders Hammar <and...@hammar.net
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One thing we could do to make stuff easier around these .bat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scripts
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drop support for this 4NT shell and Windows versions that are not
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NT (i.e. Windows 9x / ME).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, as Maven 3.2+ requires a minimum of JDK 1.6 there is no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> support anything that JDK 1.6 doesn't run on.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> If we are calling this 3.3.0 we can just say we have dropped win
>>>>>>>>>>>> 9x/Me
>>>>>>>>>>>> support and the 4NT alternative command interpreter
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes. We should probably clearly state what we support in the System
>>>>>>>>>>> Requirements (both on-line and in distro).
>>>>>>>>>>> And a JIRA ticket to go with this is good for the release notes.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> /Anders
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't find any info about Oracle JDK 1.6, but Oracle JDK 1.7
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> requires a
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> minimum of Windows Vista [1].
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't find any info on openJDK's requirements.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IBM J9 JDK 6 seems to require a minimum of Windows XP SP3 [2].
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/config-417990.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [2]
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/#!/SSYKE2_6.0.0/com.ibm.
>>>>>>>>> java.doc.60_26/vm626/GenericWrapper/hardwareandsoftwarerequirements.ht
>>>>>>>>> ml>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Anders
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015-02-25 19:38 GMT+01:00 Jason van Zyl <ja...@takari.io
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Awesome, thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2015, at 10:32 AM, Andreas Gudian <
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> andreas.gud...@gmail.com <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm stuck with a windows box and I can give it a try...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .bat-scripting is not really a joy, but what's in the patch
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> translatable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andreas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015-02-25 17:01 GMT+01:00 Igor Fedorenko <i...@ifedorenko.com
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can see actual diff to mvn shell script in [1], but the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically two-fold. First, find nearest parent directory that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> contains
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .mvn/ subdirectory. This parent is considered "true"
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> multi-module
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project root (MNG-1958). Second, if .mvn/java.config file is
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> present
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately under the true multimodule project root, use its
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> java invocation parameters, i.e. similar to $MAVEN_OPTS
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> environment
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know enough about Windows scripting to make similar
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mvn.bat and mvnDebug.bat batch files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=maven.git;a=commit;h=
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8ed9a1caa8890773b45c6c408a4e40acf4f4b0fd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Igor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2015-02-25 9:56, Robert Patrick wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What exactly is the problem that Igor ran into that limits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solution
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Unix-only?  Knowing this would help people determine what
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort needed to solve the problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Patrick <robert.patr...@oracle.com <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VP, Oracle Corporation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7460 Warren Pkwy, Ste. 300      Office: +1.972.963.2872
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Frisco, TX 75034, USA           Mobile: +1.469.556.9450
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Professional Oracle WebLogic Server
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by Robert Patrick, Gregory Nyberg, and Philip Aston
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with Josh Bregman and Paul Done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Book Home Page: http://www.wrox.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kindle Version: http://www.amazon.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason van Zyl [mailto:ja...@takari.io <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>]
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 7:40 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Maven Developers List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Maven 3.2.6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 24, 2015, at 11:31 PM, Arnaud Héritier <
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> aherit...@gmail.com <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had a quick look at the changeling and I'm +1 for a 3.3.0
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improvements like the toolchain integration and few others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the project and won't veto anything as I have no time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MNG-5767
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> integrated without a windows support ? For me it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Noone could help Igor on this ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be great if someone would help, but it is still a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> step
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For projects that require this and document specific
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> requirements
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just work for non-Windows users. Say the project needs 8gb to
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly: in most cases no one reads the documentation they
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it fails. Then they go read something and figure it out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We've at least made it work for some people. If there isn't a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> single
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committer who uses Windows who can add the same capabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find a contributor I don't think it should stop the feature
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the people it can benefit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Igor and I don't use Windows regularly, don't know Windows,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know Windows and none of our customers use Windows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's overall a net improvement. For me it's a about gradual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improvement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I've asked on Twitter if there are any Windows users that
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many months/years ago the integration of colors in logs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> output
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rejected in a part because we wasn't confident in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think that was the issue. The issue was us not being
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decide on an underlying logging framework. I've seen JANSI
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fine on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows for years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My 2 cents.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 1:29 AM, Mark Derricutt <
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> m...@talios.com <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 Feb 2015, at 4:06, Karl Heinz Marbaise wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on the list of changes i would suggest to make a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.3.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.2.6....to make clear something is introduced....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 on 3.3.0 here. Bring on the changes!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Derricutt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.theoryinpractice.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.chaliceofblood.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://plus.google.com/+MarkDerricutt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/talios
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://facebook.com/mderricutt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arnaud Héritier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://aheritier.net
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com Twitter/Skype :
>>>>>>>>>>> aheritier
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> People develop abstractions by generalizing from concrete
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every attempt to determine the correct abstraction on paper
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually developing a running system is doomed to failure. No
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart. A framework is a resuable design, so you develop it by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the things it is supposed to be a design of. The more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the more general your framework will be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Ralph Johnson & Don Roberts, Patterns for Evolving
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Frameworks
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;> For
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> additional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lastly, "Impossible." The lamest of the lame excuses! Difficult
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impractical, or too expensive, but rarely is anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Yvon Chouinard, Let my People Go Surfing
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my phone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> the course of true love never did run smooth ...
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -- Shakespeare
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We know what we are, but know not what we may be.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- Shakespeare
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We know what we are, but know not what we may be.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  -- Shakespeare
>>>>> 
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Jason
>>>> 
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Jason van Zyl
>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> Be not afraid of growing slowly, be only afraid of standing still.
>>>> 
>>>> -- Chinese Proverb
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
>>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>> http://twitter.com/takari_io
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work 
>> and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his 
>> education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply 
>> pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves 
>> others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself, he always 
>> appears to be doing both.
>> 
>>   -- François-René de Chateaubriand
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Mit freundlichem Gruß
> Karl-Heinz Marbaise
> -- 
> SoftwareEntwicklung Beratung Schulung    Tel.: +49 (0) 2405 / 415 893
> Dipl.Ing.(FH) Karl-Heinz Marbaise        ICQ#: 135949029
> Hauptstrasse 177                         USt.IdNr: DE191347579
> 52146 Würselen                           http://www.soebes.de
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
> 

Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder, Takari and Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
http://twitter.com/takari_io
---------------------------------------------------------

happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will
elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come
and sit softly on your shoulder ...

-- Thoreau 













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