On 25/03/2019 05.55, Jaroslav Tulach wrote:
Thanks Ate. It is great to hear that using org.netbeans.* groupId is
legally OK and that it is not against any Apache policy.
I didn't draw that conclusion, please don't make it sound as if I did...
Instead, I wrote this:
Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been
transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed
from ASF (branding) Policy POV.
So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed
upon first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee.
[APIs are like stars](http://wiki.apidesign.org/wiki/Star) - they are with
us "forever" (or at least until their users/observers are alive). It is the
goal of the maintainers to make sure the APIs evolve well. Code changes
driven by marketing/branding purposes are the most harmful and useless
changes to any API. Nobody wants to repeat the com.sun.swing -> javax.swing
rename disaster.
To be clear: we're discussing Maven coordinates here, not Java packages!
Java package naming is a different topic and *may* not need to follow
the rules or policy, transitionally.
For example it might be feasible to provide and use org.apache. prefixed
Maven coordinates which artifacts provide org.netbeans Java packaged
classes.
Or maybe even *also* provide org.netbeans. prefixed Maven coordinated
artifacts as transitional solution for existing Maven users.
But again, please ask at tradema...@apache.org, I'm not enough of an
expert in this matter.
It is important, especially right now, to make the migration of NetBeans
Platform 8.2 to Apache NetBeans Platform as smooth as possible. We don't
want people to ask questions like: "Should I upgrade or should I rather
stay with pre-Apache version?" Keeping the artifact co-ordinates is
essential part of making the migration of Maven based projects on top of
NetBeans Platform "no brainer".
Many Apache projects are [kept in historical co-ordinates](
https://repository.apache.org/content/groups/public/) - freemarker, log4j,
etc.
I you actually check the above you'll notice these projects *did* move
and migrate to using the org.apache. prefix for their GroupId.
What you're pointing at are indeed *historical* (old) artifacts.
There may even be a necessary incidental maintenance/security release in
one of the old / outdated coordinates, but for *new* releases these, and
AFAIK every other ASF project with Maven artifacts, nowadays uses the
org.apache. prefix.
It is not fair to not allow NetBeans to do the same. Especially when
backward compatibility has always been a major focus of everything we did
in the NetBeans Platform.
Dear mentors, please guide me on my quest to keep the Maven co-ordinates
unchanged. Thanks you.
Unless one of the other mentors has a different view or is aware of more
explicit guidelines in this, I suggest raising these questions at
tradema...@apache.org instead.
Jaroslav Tulach
NetBeans Founder
NetBeans Platform Architect
po 25. 3. 2019 v 0:57 odesÃlatel Ate Douma <a...@douma.nu> napsal:
On 19/03/2019 18.34, Eric Barboni wrote:
Hi,
Prior to any process for voting/releasing the Apache Netbeans maven
artefacts would be sure on one point. We may use groupId
org.apache.netbeans or org.netbeans as we have the grant to do so.
It would be easier and more backward compatible to use org.netbeans as
groupId for Apache NetBeans artefacts. Can we use that groupId forever
even
if we became a TLP. Or was it only for transitioning purpose.
I think you must ask this on tradema...@apache.org.
The Apache Branding Policy says [1] that podlings may request to keep
non apache domain names (e.g. netbeans.org) for *limited uses* once the
podling graduates to TLP.
That primarily concerns website and domain usages, but the Policy isn't
really clear/explicit in how far the "limited uses" is, or may be
extended to 'forever' usage when such a domain has been transferred to
the ASF. My gut feeling is: only in exceptional cases, as explained at
[1] for openoffice.org and groovy-lang.org.
In how far this extends (or not) to the usage of non apache Maven
GroupId, temporarily or 'forever', is really not addressed nor answered
there, nor anywhere else I searched for it.
Legally, I think it should be fine, because netbeans.org has been
transferred to the ASF. But it might still not be desired or allowed
from ASF (branding) Policy POV.
So again, I advise to explicitly ask this to be answered and agreed upon
first by the Apache Trademark (and Branding) Committee.
Possibly other mentors may have more experience/knowledge in this area
how other podlings dealt with this, and can chime in as well?
Note: I understand the wish to retain the usage of org.netbeans as Maven
GroupId for backwards compatibility. But even if this will be allowed,
is it really needed to stick to using it 'forever'?
If not yet now, IMO it is advisable to at least discuss and plan to
migrate and transition to using org.apache.netbeans for future
Maven artifacts / NetBeans releases.
If not, do you want to use org.netbeans also for new Maven artifacts?
Otherwise you'll end up with an even more 'messy' Maven/Nexus artifact
management, using 2 different (base) GroupIds...
[1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs#nonapache
One second question is concerning process to vote/release the
artefacts.
The artefacts are built using the same tag as the official release of
Apache
NetBeans (incubating) for example for version 10 its tag is 10.0-vc5.
The only element to vote on would be a staged repository with a bunch
of
artefacts at
(
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1011/
)
as the source are already released (signed by two different people).
Will that work the Apache way ? How to make it comply.
Best Regards
Eric
PS:
(The donated mavenutilities plugins will be at org.apache.netbeans
because
they are new artefacts as the previous release netbeans-parent)
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