Hi Youssef,
please see inline:
On Dec 6, 2012, at 11:00 PM, lemine youssef wrote:
> I personally have the feeling that ofbiz PCM get more and more isolated and
> disconnected form the reality for some reasons :
> -Jacopo argue a contribution refusal because non one of the community !
> does he forgot that
> we (neogia team) belongs to the community and we have dozen of customer
> that do too. or the
> community means PMC members only?
> -what is the main role of the community, except that it should influence
> PCM choices?
> You should, as PMC member, take the community request into consideration
> !
And we do; however Neogia team is not the OFbiz community, it is simply one
player in the OFBiz community.
Because of the fact that the Neogia team is clearly a lobby (you have all the
same opinion on topics and you together try to put pressure, as you are doing
now, on the PMC to get things done as the team decided) I consider it as being
*one* member of the OFBiz community with one opinion; this is not enough to
claim that the community wants something and that the PMC has to implement
accordingly.
Please consider that the ASF is here to make sure that no community is driven
by the interest of one Company; this is clearly true for OFBiz but it is
clearly not true for Neogia and if, following your reasonings, the OFBiz PMC
should implement what Neogia asks (because of its "importance") then we would
defeat the real goal of the ASF; instead the OFBiz PMC will protect the OFBiz
community from such influences.
> -we all know how the ofbiz framework is great and well built, but the
> ofbiz does not take off, whey?
> I explain that by the fact that ofbiz PCM choices get disconnected from
> the end users expectations
> and needs and all what count is that pmc team consideration.
This is just your opinion and I could read it in a completely different one: I
could state that the reason is that in the last years the codebase grew
uncontrolled with a bunch of useless (to many) features/tools and this led to
an uncontrolled grow of its complexity and maintenance cost (in terms of time).
However in the last years (and same is happening now) I have helped some really
big customers to deploy OFBiz in their complex business and they are happy and
successful... so your initial statement may be incorrect as OFBiz is taking off
in many situations.
>
> -PMC members reactivity decreases dramatically giving external observers
> the feeling that they
> have no more the same motivation and no more involved by the project life
> !
This is a psychological issue on your side: you feel out of the community
("external observer") and so you see the PMC acting
> -Is it normal that there where no enough PMC members at last apache conf ?
> i don't think so.
Yes, it is quite common indeed.
All that said I want to give to you (and all Neogia crew) a suggestion: rather
than arguing with the PMC or committers when we are in disagreement on
something, and waste yours and the committers time complaining, please try to
get the most from our suggestions; also if there is a tool that you would like
OFBiz to adopt then do your best to make sure that several other independent
community members are using it, sharing ideas, and improving it; at that point
it will be easier for the committer group to integrate it into the official
codebase.
What I see right now is this:
Neogia <-----> OFBiz PMC/committers <-----> OFBiz Community
rather than:
Neogia -----> OFBiz Community <-----> OFBiz PMC/committers
I also suspect that the lack of feedback that the Neogia team is getting from
the OFBiz community (most of your posts get ignored) may be due to a language
barrier: unfortunately most of the messages (including this one) sent by the
Neogia team are really hard to read and understand. Since the official language
of the OFBiz project is the English, I would suggest you to invest more time in
improving the quality of the communications in this language.
Kind regards,
Jacopo
