That's fair. We can definitely do this: One way to do that is to host the meeting, make sure connectivity > information for the meeting is available to all, and then send out a > summary after the meeting.
As for scheduling in advance, I'm considering 48 hours enough for this kickoff meeting because it's really an emergency meeting under a more positive name. As for the temporary regular meetings, the time and day would be set well in advance because we'd be deciding it over the next couple of days. And so far, I've been using UTC (AKA GMT) for my times even though I'm personally in US Mountain Time. I plan to continue doing so, and I agree that it's beneficial. I can appreciate your assistance to help us operate within the requirements set by the ASF. I don't know the requirements yet, so having someone with your knowledge (and responsiveness) is great. Thanks, David On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:32 AM, John D. Ament <[email protected]> wrote: > One of the reasons that mailing lists are used is to avoid co-location of > contributors being a requirement. This doesn't mean that using tools like > slack, IRC, hipchat aren't allowed. I would expect the community to build > some level of governance around how communication from the real time > aspects move into near-real-time channels (e.g. mailing lists). One way to > do that is to host the meeting, make sure connectivity information for the > meeting is available to all, and then send out a summary after the > meeting. Try to schedule as much in advance as possible and pick times > focused on UTC (e.g. publish your times in UTC), even if the actual UTC > time is not reasonable for all. > > I'm here to make sure you guys operate within the bounds of the ASF > requirements. Its up to the community to say they agree with how you're > planning to operate. > > John > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 12:17 PM David Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > > > John, > > > > Thanks for that link! Very useful, for much more than the communication > > portion. Any other useful links? We should add these to the list of > > links, and include that on our website (hopefully next week). > > > > However, I'd still like to continue with my proposal, though modified, > even > > after reading this section of the linked-to document: > > > > Communication is done via mailing lists. These identify "virtual meeting > > > rooms" where conversations happen asynchronously, which is a general > > > requirement for groups that are so geographically distributed to cover > > all > > > time zones (like it's normally the case for the various Apache > > communities). > > > > > > Some projects additionally use more synchronous messaging (for example, > > > IRC or instant messaging). Voice communication is extremely rare, > > normally > > > because of costs and the language barrier (speech is harder to > understand > > > than written text). > > > > > > In general, asynchronous communication is much more important because > it > > > allows archives to be created and it's more tolerant on the volunteer > > > nature of the various communities. > > > > > > The typical reason to avoid voice communication is cost and the language > > barrier. At this time, to my knowledge, the group consists of people > that > > do understand and speak English, even if not all natively. And the cost > of > > Skype for our small team is nothing. Further, the greatest cost to our > > members is their time, and voice communication will actually reduce that > > cost -- a one hour voice call can communicate much more than an hour of > > emails. And right now, speed is everything. We need things to start > > moving quickly or this project will unquestionably die. > > > > However, I do recognize that this isn't typical. But I'd also implore > > everyone to understand that typical isn't going to fix this project -- we > > need immediate emergency actions for awhile until we're back on track. > And > > once we're back on track, we can go back to status quo. > > > > I'd also recognize that not everyone will be able to attend the temporary > > regular meeting, and it's not like we can make it mandatory anyways. But > > I'd like for us to allow people that want to move quickly be able to > > organize and attend. > > > > Finally, regarding team chat: Team chat is both synchronous messaging and > > an archived communication system, and it's much better and faster than > > email mailing lists in my opinion. > > > > How does that sound, John? > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:00 AM, John D. Ament <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > Hey guys > > > > > > I do want to point out that there are some expectations for how > > > communication happens within the ASF. Please review - > > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html > > > > > > John > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 11:44 AM Sam Barrett <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I nominate https://slack.com/ for team chat, and > https://www.join.me/ > > > for > > > > screen sharing (supports 10 concurrent users, including the caster). > > > > > > > > I second the proposal of utilizing https://www.skype.com/ for group > > > > audio/video conferencing (supports 25 concurrent users on the free > > > > platform). > > > > > > > > I second the two-week sprint bookended with planning/retrospective > > > > meetings. > > > > > > > > Ideally, meetings occur on Sundays (in the US). > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 8:57 AM, David Ash <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello developers! > > > > > > > > > > I have some proposals related to methodology and communications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > METHODOLOGY > > > > > > > > > > I propose that over the course of the next three months, we use a > > loose > > > > > scrum methodology with two-week sprints, and that we start those > > > sprints > > > > > Saturday, April 23rd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > COMMUNICATIONS - MEETINGS > > > > > > > > > > I further propose that we have a special kickoff meeting on > Saturday > > > > > (Apr23) and/or Sunday (Apr24), based on the religious needs, > > > > availability, > > > > > and preference of attendees. My preference is Sunday. > > > > > > > > > > I further propose we have regular meetings every two weeks on a > > > Saturday > > > > > and/or Sunday at the end of each sprint. These meetings should be > > > around > > > > > an hour, and double as both a Retrospective and a Sprint Planning > > > > meetings. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > COMMUNICATIONS - SOLUTIONS > > > > > > > > > > I further propose we designate a solution for real-time audio > > > > > communications to be used for meetings and at other necessary > times, > > > and > > > > I > > > > > propose both Skype and telephones as a candidate. > > > > > > > > > > I further propose we designate a solution for screen sharing / > > > > > teleconferencing to be used for meetings and at other necessary > > times, > > > > and > > > > > I propose Skype as a candidate. > > > > > > > > > > I further propose we use some kind of real-time team chat system > > beyond > > > > > email. I make no proposal for candidates, but solicit this > audience > > to > > > > > propose candidates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PROPOSALS, SOLUTION NOMINATIONS, AND RELATED DISCUSSION DEADLINES > > > > > > > > > > I further propose that all general discussions regarding these > > > proposals > > > > in > > > > > general be completed by 12:00 AM GMT, Friday April 22. (That is > 8:00 > > > PM > > > > > ET, 7:00 PM CT, 6:00 PM MT, and 5:00 PM PT today, Thursday April > 21, > > > > 2016). > > > > > > > > > > I further propose that the date and time of the kickoff meeting, if > > we > > > > > agree a kickoff meeting should in fact be held, be discussed and > > > decided > > > > no > > > > > later than 12:00 AM GMT, Saturday April 22. I think it would be > most > > > > > useful for developers to state their preference of a meeting day > for > > > the > > > > > kickoff and regular meetings. > > > > > > > > > > I further propose that all candidates should be submitted by 6:00 > AM > > > GMT > > > > > Friday, April 22. > > > > > > > > > > I further propose that we hold an election of solutions via email > > > > starting > > > > > at 6:00 AM GMT Friday April 22nd, that shall be completed no later > > than > > > > > 6:00 AM GMT Saturday, April 22. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please voice any thoughts, concerns, and comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your time! > > > > > > > > > > David Ash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
