Arthur schrieb: > > > >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Arthur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >... > One argument against an "official" turtle.py module, is that it will be the > Phone Company's Turtle, and the forces of agility and merit will be lost. > To me it is better if folks wanting a serious turtle graphics implementation > expect to look for it outside the standard distribution. > > I am perfectly aware that my approach to these discussion is not likely to > get me liked. Kirby, we know, is weird ;). > ...
Hi Arthur and all of you ... we all really know very well that you don't like to liked, except perhaps by Kirby. But that's really not the point when discussing about changes in the turtle.py module. To me this discussion already seems rather strange. There are (I think quite a lot) of people, who use turtle.py, as a part of the standard distribution of Python, for their educational work. Some of them feel, that the module is not adequate for their needs and they propose to enhance it. A procedure, done so many times with so many Python modules. And just in that moment there come two protagonists of the Pythonic educational scene and state: if you want to amend it, then we find, that it would be better to delete it completely from the standard distribution. That's a really weird conclusion. And it lets me ask myself, what interests stand behind this sort of argument? My interests are clear. I've written a book "Python für/for Kids" which relies heavily on the turtle module as a visualiziation tool. (And I've got a really nice preface from Guido.) So clearly I wouldn't like turtle.py found to be deleted from the Python distribution. What I and most other users of the python module want and, I think, many teachers need, is: you can install Python and use it - as was said "out of the box" - with children and young student (and also older students) and thus have fun. A bit more fun would be a bit better. This comprises among other things doing some graphics without having to learn the Tkinter machinery. I not only teach students but also teachers. Many of the teachers of what we call "Informatik", sort of computer science, have a big stress not only with their daily school life, as they normally are also maths, physics or teachers of some other subject, but also with keeping contact to the progress in so many branches of computer science. They need tools they can learn easily and teach easily to students who (at least the largest par of them) don't want to become computer scientists. Thats a kind of cp4e. (Many of the e's will not learn more than one computer language, at least in Austria ;-( ) And of course it has many more merits, as for instance making Python more popular etc. etc. (By the way: who of us uses the really good turtle module of PythonCard? I assume only few, and I think, that is because it's not in the standard distribution.) But I don't want to argue on this any more, as most of it has already been stated in this discussion. In fact I would like to support the idea of Vernon Ceder to transfer the discussion of the development of turtly.py to some separate place. Perhaps it would be possible to host it at sourceforge or something like that and install some mailing list, e.g. turtle-dev, on it for several month. On python.org there currently approximately 70, many of which are low traffic. There are really many interesting questions to discuss and that is not possible in a fruitful athmosphere on a list where two people who do more than 50% of the overall postings (in terms of number not to speak of volume, as it was in the last six month) dislike it. Moreover it would also be not interesting enough for the majority of the participants of Edu-Sig. So it would suffice to report progress and results from time to time here. So Vernon, could you check which possibilities there are? Regards, Gregor > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > -- Gregor Lingl Reisnerstrasse 3/19 A-1030 Wien Telefon: +43 1 713 33 98 Mobil: +43 664 140 35 27 Website: python4kids.net _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig