On Wednesday 23 August 2017 12:33:37 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Yes, you absolutely need that, not implementing something like that
> would a liability issue.   Systems like this need an integrated E-stop
> they is trigged independently of the motion controller.  I'm imagine a
> layered system where the controller can issue a "stop" or the operator
> or some sensors or as a last resort a bumper presses a microswitch
> with cuts power to the motors.   Like a few switches in parallel and
> if any one of them get tripped the power is cut to the relays that
> connect power to the motor and the motor lead short putting the motor
> in "brake mode"   This would also have the effect of stopping the
> motors after a power failure.  Using energy in the motors coils to
> brake motion.
>
> None of this is rocket science.  Hire an engineer with experience in
> factory automation.   Or just skim through some text books
>
> Half of the design of such a system, is self monitoring. You need a
> design that remains safe even after a component failure.   Some times
> it is easy, like using normally open relays so power is disconnected
> if control signal sops.
>
> We are talking about a system that will cost many millions of dollars
> and will need a full time engineering staff to design and build.
>
What he said...

> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Rick Gresham
> <[email protected]>
>
> wrote:
> > The building will likely typical concrete tilt-up or something
> > similar. The system will have to track/control position in real
> > time.  Collisions will be very expensive so redundant systems are
> > easily justified.  It may need some sort of collision avoidance
> > system as a back up, too.  If the crosses some boundary, everything
> > stops.  Stoppages are not a big problem, bumps in the dark are.
> >
> > I've wondered about redundant control systems but haven't come
> > across any information yet.  Anyone remember the triple Tandem
> > non-stop systems NASA used?  Three fault-tolerant systems running in
> > parallel.  If they came up with different results, it was
> > odd-man-out.   Probably don't need to go that far for this
> > application unless something available off the shelf affordably.
> >
> > > On Aug 23, 2017, at 8:56 AM, Chris Albertson
> > > <[email protected]>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > There are many ways to measure position.  With something this big
> > > and expensive I would suggest some redundancy.  The cost of
> > > measuring is tiny computer t the cost of a 100f gantry.
> > >
> > > One of the bigger problems I see is flex in the system and thermal
> > > expansion.   If the goal is 1/8th inch over a 100 foot run then
> > > their
> >
> > needs
> >
> > > to be some design margin so you'd be designing for something like
> > > 1/16th inches.
> > >
> > > I doubt that simply measuring how for you are along a steel bed
> > > will
> >
> > work.
> >
> > > Yes you could try but the beam itself will bend and change it's
> > > length. You would have to measure absolute position relative to
> > > fixed locations
> >
> > on
> >
> > > the floor.
> > >
> > > I don't think I've ever seen a building made to close tolerances
> > > either. The sports are not going to be square to each other or
> > > level or vertical.
> > >
> > > I't not hard to compensate for the not-perfect mechanics.  You can
> > > also continuously calibrate the sensors from know references
> > > inthewtork space
> > >
> > >> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 2:21 AM, andy pugh <[email protected]> 
wrote:
> > >>> On 23 August 2017 at 05:17, Dave Cole <[email protected]>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> A 3D laser tracker was part of the control scheme to track the
> > >>> actual
> > >>
> > >> tool
> > >>
> > >>> head location.
> > >>> That way standard rack could be used for the positioning
> > >>> mechanism and
> > >>
> > >> the
> > >>
> > >>> position could be corrected on the fly via the laser tracker.
> > >>
> > >> That might still be a good idea, because it seems that such a
> > >> machine might need to be modular, so units that are
> > >> friction-drive on standard rolled steel sections seems like a
> > >> likely solution.
> > >> There will be some tyre-creep, but the laser (or acoustic)
> > >> feedback could correct it.
> > >> I heard of a system where you have a microphone in each corner of
> > >> the room and a "clicker" that is localised in space by clever
> > >> acoustic processing.
> > >> The application was measuring accelerometer positions when
> > >> instrumenting a car or van body. If you have ever "walked" a Faro
> > >> arm round a van body you would know why the system seemed
> > >> attractive.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> atp
> > >> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > >> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils
> > >> and lunatics."
> > >> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> -------------
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
_______________________________________________
Emc-users mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Reply via email to