---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Youness Alaoui <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> Date: Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 3:47 AM Subject: Re: [E-devel] RFC: E17 Release To: Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com>
The point is that without a release, you can't expect interest in 'vaporware'. After the release, there is a very good chance that you will see a lot more people interested in it and more contributors. On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 10:50 PM, Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com>wrote: > On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 11:10:21 -0400 Youness Alaoui > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> said: > > we won't catch up because no one works on e17. no one is interested in it > anymore and a release won't change that/ 99% of the development effort is > on > EFL not e. > > > Thanks Gustavo, you said many of the same things that I just said (email > was > > written async) and you made me realize one point... the WM world is > > constantly changing, when we are ready for release, some new thing will > come > > out and then we need to adapt again... E17 was the most beautiful WM out > > there, and then compiz was released and it added cool new effects, then > > gnome 3 was released, and with all that, E17 is starting to get > outdated.. > > if you don't release, you'll never be able to catch up (they caught up to > > you, but they stole the users who wanted those features but couldn't see > a > > release to get them from). > > I won't make this any longer :) > > > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 6:01 AM, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri < > > barbi...@profusion.mobi> wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:55 AM, Michael Jennings <m...@kainx.org> > wrote: > > > > On Saturday, 29 October 2011, at 11:23:37 (+0900), > > > > Carsten Haitzler wrote: > > > > > > > >> i'll post here as a summary. what k-s wants is to just release > e17-as is > > > after > > > >> fixing some efm bugs. who agrees with that? everything stays as-is. > > > >> > > > >> the reason xrandr is on the todo is that there are many complaints > and > > > >> questions about how to get multi screen to work and we have no > solution. > > > >> > > > >> the reason taskbar is there is because engage is compositing based > > > realistically > > > >> and we have to work without, and we again have had enough users > complain > > > and > > > >> ask for a way to switch tasks. > > > >> > > > >> the reason efm is on the list is its mostly working and usable as a > > > simple > > > >> filemanager - that was its point. it needs some bugs fixed. > > > >> > > > >> the reason keymap config is there is for all those europeans (and a > few > > > others) > > > >> with odd keymaps and people have no clue how to configure this on a > > > >> command-line or in config files. the other todo items could get > dropped, > > > though > > > >> theme does need to be polished. > > > >> > > > >> this wasnt unilaterally decided by me. i believe in making a good > > > attempt at a > > > >> quality release. gustavo just believes in dumping out whatever we > have. > > > all the > > > >> bitching about gnome and others will happen to us if we don't > provide > > > these > > > >> basics that gnome etc. already DO. to many people we are useless. > these > > > are not > > > >> new fangled ideas or standards - this is old hat that we haven't > > > covered. so > > > >> how do u expect to make those people happy and try or stay with e > when > > > we are > > > >> not functional in some key aspects? > > > > > > > > Absolutely correct. > > > > > > The way you guys put thing looks like revolutionary stuff is coming > > > before the release. The missing features won't hurt as much others you > > > guys never cited. > > > > > > If the person is willing to use E17 you can be sure that features > > > (even basic) doesn't play a role in his life as he can work out his > > > stuff. If person wants features, they will very likely move between > > > the 3 big ones (GNOME, KDE or Unity). There are tons of other features > > > these people will miss, from indexing files to broader connection > > > management (connman is not as used as networkmanager) to integration > > > with web2.0 services such as sending pictures to picasa or flickr. > > > > > > IMO we're getting people that would be willing to move to awesome or > > > fluxbox. That is, zero features, just speed and control. Like a > > > sportive car. We can compete there. > > > > > > > > > > After 10 years of development, releasing nothing is far, far > > > > preferable to releasing something half-assed. > > > > > > > > I can hear the comments now. "I've waited this long for crap? 10 > > > > years, and this is the best they can do? Never again!" > > > > > > This WILL happen. Because of exactly this argument. We don't release, > > > developers go away and we have less man power. Other desktops don't > > > stop, they release and get more developers, they can implement more. > > > Features won't stop showing. > > > > > > In 2007 when I joined to project I was wondering why it was not > > > released. By the time we still had basics like language and efm to do. > > > We did not release and since then we also started to miss Composite > > > Manager (done, while lang was not), Indexer Integration (partially > > > done with Tracker in Everything)... very soon we'll have to implement > > > the new FDO standards for applications menu and systray. > > > > > > Even the canonical arguments "fancy" and "light" are not applying > > > these days. We're boring compared to competition. There are really > > > light WM out there. > > > > > > That said, the more we wait, the worse it gets. We'll have to suffer, > > > let's do it for once and for all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If people are honestly that bent out of shape wanting a release, they > > > > should be hammering away on the TODO list. Getting shit done is how > a > > > > release will happen, not rehashing the same tired old argument every > > > > few months diverting time from more productive pursuits. > > > > > > I did try this approach earlier. It did not work. I've worked for > > > years in the TODO list, yet the list is never enough for people > > > blocking the release. > > > > > > -- > > > Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > > > http://profusion.mobi embedded systems > > > -------------------------------------- > > > MSN: barbi...@gmail.com > > > Skype: gsbarbieri > > > Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook > > > in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps > > > for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. Discover just how easy and > simple > > > it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev > > > _______________________________________________ > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook > > in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps > > for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. Discover just how easy and simple > > it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev > > _______________________________________________ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > -- > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. Discover just how easy and simple it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
