On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:19:17 -0400 Youness Alaoui <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> said:
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Carsten Haitzler > <ras...@rasterman.com>wrote: > > > On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 15:35:01 +0100 (CET) Vincent Torri < > > vto...@univ-evry.fr> > > said: > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 30 Oct 2011, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > > > > > > we released efl 1.0 back at the start of the year... > > > > is there a massive rise in developers? :) > > > > > > the EFL without kick-ass apps, showing we can do more than the other > > > similar libraries, are useless. So it's not really surprising. > > > > sure. > > > > > Btw, there is not a massive amount of new devs / users, but some new ones > > > appear. And there more people in IRC chans (#edevev and #e.fr) the last > > > few months. Not sure if the 1.0 release (with the puplicity we tried to > > > make) and this increase of devs/users are correlated, but my opinion is > > > that it helped. > > > > you know what gets lots and lots of users and attention? going onto a major > > distribution as the primary desktop. a release wont make that happen. > > > haha, sure it won't.. cause distros will take the svn snapshot... and sure, > doing a release in itself will not bring any user or attention, it has to > be part of a major distribution... what's your big plan on achieving that? it won't happen because we are not a "sexy desktop environment". there is 1 big mistake i made back in 96/97 - it's that i wasn't all enthused by the "desktop environment" bandwagon - i thought that apps were apps and should work just fine under any wm. the "desktop shell" (which i didn't have a name for back then) was what i cared about and what i wanted e to become. e17 is very close to being that. but i made a fatal error. i didn't jump on the "DE" bandwagon and declare E's path to become a DE of its own to compete. that was a mistake. the big regret. as long as E isn't a "DE" it doesn't matter as it doesn't INTEGRATE to apps. Qt or GTK based apps just look odd under e. people don't want it. so unless E becomes a DE... this won't happen on any major distro. major meaning ubuntu/suse/fedora/debian levels - the DEFAULT DE they get without asking explicitly. > Oh and btw, I heard that if you weren't so stubborn, redhat/fedora/gnome > might still be using E as their primary WM. that's a nice vicious rumour either you are making up now or that has been spread. e only was shipped because of accident and that i worked at redhat and that i did my job. i can tell you that when i left redhat there was bad blood between me and redhat. we were not getting along well at all. partly because i was hired away for a better salary to silicon valley and redhat officially fired me because i had accepted an offer and was waiting for visa approvals that at the time were problematic and took time in the USA? lucky for me my new visa came through a few days after that (which is when i was going to put in my 1 month notice anyway). it was not possible to change companies in the US without re-applying for a visa... maybe you didn't know that? and all visa applications were a matter of public record and redhat was watching that so that's how they found out. so sure - use the wm written by the guy you fired because you were pissed off at him moving to a better company in a better location for a better salary? mmmmm yeah. sure! i see you also need a little history lesson on gnome way back when. let's roll back to 1997. i was working on enlightenment. it was up to 0.13 - it worked and looked... different. i was hired by redhat. they had this new "gnome" thing that miguel started. they wanted me to work on that. ok. i gave imlib a gdk front end to gtk/ apps could sanely use it. i argued on the gnome devel list that they needed a wm as you couldn't do a desktop without integration to one. miguel kept arguing they could do it just fine with all wm's. this went on for about 10 months. i was ready to make e do whatever gnome needed, but they were not interested, so i went my own way with e as gnome was going to work with al wm's and no integration. suddenly 10 months later it was "oh halp!!!! we need wm integration!!!!". the realization dawned finally that you DId need WM integration for pany elements of gnome. i sighed and went "ok - i can do it" and so i plugged extra things into e that conflicted with e's own internal features to make gnome happy - because that was my job. the fact is gnome WANTED the wm to be a dumb wm slave. of course that has now changed with gnome 3 - they finally are doing what i was always doing with e - a highly integrated wm. when i left redhat e went its own way. it was not going to be a slave wm for gnome and simply throw out its pagers, menus, wallpaper handling and pretty much everything else because gnome insisted on it. so gnome switched to sawfish as they didn't want to fight with e's duplicated features and non-gnome-like policies. so e wasn't going to be shipped anymore. i was fine with this as the WAY it was shipped - it was a dumb "just draw borders and move/resize windows" wm. it in no way was close to what e was able to do and what i wanted e to do and become. so as of that day since gnome just wanted a slave wm... and wanted to replace everything else with its own panels and applets, we went our separate ways. and thus e isn't shipped with gnome on redhat etc. - this happened not due to stubbornness, but because i didn't want e to be a twm. there were plenty of those around (twm, fvwm, blah blah). the downside for gnome was they didnt have any of the authors of these wm's helping them out and so they couldnt add the support as easily. if they just wanted borders and window moving/resizing they could use these or another wm that did want to integrate with gnome. i wanted to have gnome see why it needed to integrate heavily back in 1997. gnome wasn't interested in the slightest and wanted the simplest wm it could deal with. e was definitely not that wm and it was not simple. finally in 2011 gnome has come around to that way of thinking with gnome 3.0 and gnome shell. so really - you can make your snide remarks, but history just has a very different story to tell. > > > About the release, I see good points and bad points in everything that > > > was said, so I can't make up my mind :) > > > > -- > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook > > in minutes. 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