On Sunday, October 30, 2011, Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:56:07 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > <barbi...@profusion.mobi> said: > >> Sorry David, but what we are trying to show is that we have a psychological >> problem. Going code to solve the technical problem is not solving the worst >> one, the psychological. >> >> At IRC we also talked about the shameful behavior post 1.0 EFL. We did a >> release since the technical details were over, yet we failed to overcome >> the psychological problem and no releases after it. Even tho major bugs >> were fixed (stable bugfix) and great amount of features were done (new >> release). > > you must. have a blindfold on. you are blinkered. > > http://www.enlightenment.org/p.php?p=news > > jan 29 - efl 1.0 > may 25 - efl 1.0.1 > aug 5 - eeze 1.0.2 > > and right now we are in merge window for 1.1 - did you not read my email to > e-devel about it? apparently not.
I did, yet it should have been done months ago, not now. >> There is no point in argue about the technical bits. Those are easy and we >> like to solve them. We have to fix the hard problem that nobody wants to >> handle. Ignore it won't help. >> >> As kakaroto pointed out the current behavior just scares new developers and >> demotivates existing (I'm included here). Then we have less people to help >> as we are isolating the project to the point we have just 1-3 developers >> doing actual code. :-( > > and all the people not helping want to run the show? How to help what we diagree on? We are making our points, you cannot ignore them as a techinical problem, it's not about the tech part. >> Even the non code issues are problematic. There was a guy doing the website >> and without any help he left. Then another guy came and the process >> repeated. The first email was "I've seen this before and you are going >> nowhere" and he also left. For theme I've tried o help with efenniht and > > because he was. i have seen dozens of emails saying "heres my website layout" > as a text file - then nothing getting done. dresb (andreas blanc) was doing a > good job - but he had some health problems and had to pull back. jesse was > doing content and i asked him for it - he vanished never to respond to my email > back in april. i frankly haven't had time to do anything with the website. The point nobody will do it is because people loose motivation after being pushed back. >> same behavior make us tired of going against a wall and doing catch-up with > > efnheit never got anything said about it other than i really didn't quite like > it - detourious imho is better. i am in fact using it right now. i've even > fixed up the default wallpaper to not be so glaringly "same grey". i mean to > talk to jeffdameth about it. i would consider detourious for a default theme - > it still needs work to replace default. If it does not become the default it will always lag behind. Just because people fix what is the default due lack of time. What is the motivation for people to play catch up? Maybe their work will be trashed, as happened before with efenniht. Who wants to work for nothing? >> the default. I've tried to help detourious but maybe the same thing will >> happen, as elementary theme is FAR from ready and the code evolves without >> people fixing detourious. >> >> Yes, pychology plays a great role in community and we are very bad at it. >> See the contribution rate of unpaid developers (not from profusion, samsung >> or ordissimo) :-( > > if i gave into pressure and whats popular e would never have existed.. Congrats, see what happened over the history. We went from mainstream as gnome wm to a barely known software piece people laught at. We can change this, but need a consensus to get there. > i've made my statement on what needs to be done on the todo. as of now i'm not > taking part in this flamefest anymore. i'm working on the todo and efl 1.1 > after efl 1.1 its e17 and elm 1.0. e17 involves working on the tasks assigned. > if you cared you would have spent your weekend working on e17 like i just did. > i spent most of saturday and sunday on it. who else is sacrificing for it? come > on? (and i didn't do any during the week because i spent all that time on efl) as said the technical problems are solvable. But the actual problems are not technical and I don't see them going away anytime soon. So far you point to the list, but it is your list as not everybody agrees with it. You can't expect people complaining about the list contents to help with it. OTOH people that say they agree with it should help you with it. So far you are working on it alone, with some help from discomfitor. This discussion turned to be very helpful to understand what is this about. :-( >> On Sunday, October 30, 2011, David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 07:34:57 -0400 Youness Alaoui >> > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> wrote: >> > >> >> On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 4:42 AM, David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 04:07:30 -0400 Youness Alaoui >> >> > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > The purpose of this thread (and probably all the previous >> >> > > discussions) is to get a point across, the release is needed, and >> >> > > most people think that there is no point in delaying it, but if >> >> > > you're too stubborn on that, maybe that's the reason no release >> >> > > was ever made, not about people not contributing (which btw, >> >> > > seeing how you sometimes answer aggressively, it might actually >> >> > > have scared away contributors). >> >> > >> >> > Most people? You have numbers to back that up? >> >> > >> >> > I'm not even seeing that on this thread, just the people that want >> >> > the quick release making the most noise. >> >> > >> >> No, I don't have any hard numbers for you, but this is the impression >> >> I got from this thread as well as from users I've talked to. I didn't >> >> say "everyone", I did say "most people" and yes, I do believe that to >> >> be true. Since I can't prove it with any scientific number, let's >> >> just rephrase as "some people", I don't see how that invalidates any >> >> of the other stuff I said, unless you want to look for the little >> >> misplaced word in every sentence I wrote. >> > >> > You said that it's the point of the thread. That's not every little >> > misplaced word in every sentence, that's your executive summary of >> > your main point. Your point being "most people think" is a whole other >> > kettle of fish from your point being "some people think". >> > >> > The consensus does seem to be that there wont be an e17 release until >> > after the EFL 1.1 release anyway. The amount of passion and time we are >> > spending arguing over the exact timing of that e17 release could be >> > better spent actually working on that e17 TODO and the EFL release. >> > >> > How about we work on it, then see how much e17 TODO is left after the >> > EFL 1.1 release. That will be a better time to argue you case, when it >> > wont distract people from the work that needs to be done. Perhaps by >> > then it will be moot, and the TODO is completed. >> > >> > -- >> > A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants >> > coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. >> > >> >> -- >> Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri >> http://profusion.mobi embedded systems >> -------------------------------------- >> MSN: barbi...@gmail.com >> Skype: gsbarbieri >> Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook >> in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps >> for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. Discover just how easy and simple >> it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev >> _______________________________________________ >> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> > > > -- > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > -- Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri http://profusion.mobi embedded systems -------------------------------------- MSN: barbi...@gmail.com Skype: gsbarbieri Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. 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