On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:41:44 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri <barbi...@profusion.mobi> wrote:
> On Sunday, October 30, 2011, Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > > On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 11:56:07 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > > <barbi...@profusion.mobi> said: > > > >> Sorry David, but what we are trying to show is that we have a > psychological > >> problem. Going code to solve the technical problem is not solving the > worst > >> one, the psychological. > >> > >> At IRC we also talked about the shameful behavior post 1.0 EFL. We did a > >> release since the technical details were over, yet we failed to overcome > >> the psychological problem and no releases after it. Even tho major bugs > >> were fixed (stable bugfix) and great amount of features were done (new > >> release). > > > > you must. have a blindfold on. you are blinkered. > > > > http://www.enlightenment.org/p.php?p=news > > > > jan 29 - efl 1.0 > > may 25 - efl 1.0.1 > > aug 5 - eeze 1.0.2 > > > > and right now we are in merge window for 1.1 - did you not read my email > to > > e-devel about it? apparently not. > > I did, yet it should have been done months ago, not now. > > > >> There is no point in argue about the technical bits. Those are easy and > we > >> like to solve them. We have to fix the hard problem that nobody wants to > >> handle. Ignore it won't help. > >> > >> As kakaroto pointed out the current behavior just scares new developers > and > >> demotivates existing (I'm included here). Then we have less people to > help > >> as we are isolating the project to the point we have just 1-3 developers > >> doing actual code. :-( > > > > and all the people not helping want to run the show? > > How to help what we diagree on? We are making our points, you cannot ignore > them as a techinical problem, it's not about the tech part. > > > >> Even the non code issues are problematic. There was a guy doing the > website > >> and without any help he left. Then another guy came and the process > >> repeated. The first email was "I've seen this before and you are going > >> nowhere" and he also left. For theme I've tried o help with efenniht and > > > > because he was. i have seen dozens of emails saying "heres my website > layout" > > as a text file - then nothing getting done. dresb (andreas blanc) was > doing a > > good job - but he had some health problems and had to pull back. jesse was > > doing content and i asked him for it - he vanished never to respond to my > email > > back in april. i frankly haven't had time to do anything with the website. > > The point nobody will do it is because people loose motivation after being > pushed back. > > > >> same behavior make us tired of going against a wall and doing catch-up > with > > > > efnheit never got anything said about it other than i really didn't quite > like > > it - detourious imho is better. i am in fact using it right now. i've even > > fixed up the default wallpaper to not be so glaringly "same grey". i mean > to > > talk to jeffdameth about it. i would consider detourious for a default > theme - > > it still needs work to replace default. > > If it does not become the default it will always lag behind. Just because > people fix what is the default due lack of time. > > What is the motivation for people to play catch up? Maybe their work will > be trashed, as happened before with efenniht. Who wants to work for nothing? > > > >> the default. I've tried to help detourious but maybe the same thing will > >> happen, as elementary theme is FAR from ready and the code evolves > without > >> people fixing detourious. > >> > >> Yes, pychology plays a great role in community and we are very bad at it. > >> See the contribution rate of unpaid developers (not from profusion, > samsung > >> or ordissimo) :-( > > > > if i gave into pressure and whats popular e would never have existed.. > > Congrats, see what happened over the history. We went from mainstream as > gnome wm to a barely known software piece people laught at. We can change > this, but need a consensus to get there. > > > > i've made my statement on what needs to be done on the todo. as of now > i'm not > > taking part in this flamefest anymore. i'm working on the todo and efl 1.1 > > after efl 1.1 its e17 and elm 1.0. e17 involves working on the tasks > assigned. > > if you cared you would have spent your weekend working on e17 like i just > did. > > i spent most of saturday and sunday on it. who else is sacrificing for > it? come > > on? (and i didn't do any during the week because i spent all that time on > efl) > > as said the technical problems are solvable. But the actual problems are > not technical and I don't see them going away anytime soon. > > So far you point to the list, but it is your list as not everybody agrees > with it. You can't expect people complaining about the list contents to > help with it. OTOH people that say they agree with it should help you with > it. So far you are working on it alone, with some help from discomfitor. BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED, I AM CAPTAIN PLANET Seriously though, this is a stupid thread. We're not going to tag an alpha or whatever until efl 1.1 is out since that's a dependency, so pull your panties up and stop replying to this thread for now. > > This discussion turned to be very helpful to understand what is this about. > :-( > > >> On Sunday, October 30, 2011, David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 07:34:57 -0400 Youness Alaoui > >> > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 4:42 AM, David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 04:07:30 -0400 Youness Alaoui > >> >> > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > > The purpose of this thread (and probably all the previous > >> >> > > discussions) is to get a point across, the release is needed, and > >> >> > > most people think that there is no point in delaying it, but if > >> >> > > you're too stubborn on that, maybe that's the reason no release > >> >> > > was ever made, not about people not contributing (which btw, > >> >> > > seeing how you sometimes answer aggressively, it might actually > >> >> > > have scared away contributors). > >> >> > > >> >> > Most people? You have numbers to back that up? > >> >> > > >> >> > I'm not even seeing that on this thread, just the people that want > >> >> > the quick release making the most noise. > >> >> > > >> >> No, I don't have any hard numbers for you, but this is the impression > >> >> I got from this thread as well as from users I've talked to. I didn't > >> >> say "everyone", I did say "most people" and yes, I do believe that to > >> >> be true. Since I can't prove it with any scientific number, let's > >> >> just rephrase as "some people", I don't see how that invalidates any > >> >> of the other stuff I said, unless you want to look for the little > >> >> misplaced word in every sentence I wrote. > >> > > >> > You said that it's the point of the thread. That's not every little > >> > misplaced word in every sentence, that's your executive summary of > >> > your main point. Your point being "most people think" is a whole other > >> > kettle of fish from your point being "some people think". > >> > > >> > The consensus does seem to be that there wont be an e17 release until > >> > after the EFL 1.1 release anyway. The amount of passion and time we > are > >> > spending arguing over the exact timing of that e17 release could be > >> > better spent actually working on that e17 TODO and the EFL release. > >> > > >> > How about we work on it, then see how much e17 TODO is left after the > >> > EFL 1.1 release. That will be a better time to argue you case, when it > >> > wont distract people from the work that needs to be done. Perhaps by > >> > then it will be moot, and the TODO is completed. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants > >> > coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > >> http://profusion.mobi embedded systems > >> -------------------------------------- > >> MSN: barbi...@gmail.com > >> Skype: gsbarbieri > >> Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202 > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook > >> in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps > >> for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. Discover just how easy and simple > >> it is! http://p.sf.net/sfu/android-dev2dev > >> _______________________________________________ > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >> > > > > > > -- > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > -- Mike Blumenkrantz Zentific: Doctor recommended, mother approved. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your Android app more play: Bring it to the BlackBerry PlayBook in minutes. BlackBerry App World™ now supports Android™ Apps for the BlackBerry® PlayBook™. 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